Forums  /  Super Mario series  /  Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins  /  LEADERBOARD UPDATE THREAD - Please discuss!
  Oh_DeeROh_DeeR

Hello everyone!

It's about time we make the leaderboards and rules a little prettier.
This thread is meant for discussing changes to the rules and this post (or the next one) will contain a work-in-progress version of what will eventually become the official phrasing. Everyone is invited to share their thoughts and make suggestion as the rule set takes shape.

Here's a little overview of what might need an update:

Contents

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timing method across all categories

You may have noticed that, currently, there are 3 different timing standards for ILs, Any% and everything else.

• everything else: So far, times have been truncated after the first decimal. This decision was made several years ago when the average video material didn't justify anything close to frame accuracy.
• Any%: Times are given in milliseconds, based on video frames.
• ILs: Times are given in milliseconds, based on an approximation of game frames

The plan is to standardize the timing. The average video quality of submissions has become reasonably good enough to justify a higher accuracy, at least in my opinion. It would still be an approximation and it won't necessarily be 100% "correct", but it'll be consistent across categories and runs.
My suggestion is that we use a time conversion based on actual GB frame cycles (59.7275Hz). This would not concern submitters, but only leaderboard moderators, but I'll still share how I'd suggest the conversion should work:

Quote

(time in seconds and milliseconds) x GB framerate = number of GB frames <- round to full frames <- divide by GB framerate <- round to 3 decimals
Example:
video segment: 12:25.637 = 745.637s x 59.72750057 = 44535.03434 frames <- rounded to 44535 frames <- divided by 59.72750057 = 745.6364250133898 <- rounded to 745.636 = 12:25.636

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rules standardization across categories

The site offers the opportunity to separate game rules and category rules now, so I'd like to make use of that. Rules should follow a common structure, so that differences between categories are easy to find and understand. The phrasing should be more specific in terms of what a category entails and what's specifically (not) allowed.

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emulator rules

The rules should state more clearly that we only allow BGB and Gambatte (Speedrun). Whether we extend those rules to always only allow the most recent versions remains to be determined, since several runners have already stated that there might be differences in performance between versions.
As for the aspect of proof of legitimacy for emulator submissions, I suggest using either the speedrun-specific versions (Speedrun Mode enabled in BGB / using Gambatte-Speedrun) which will show a disclaimer upon each reset OR a full-window capture of the whole emulator. The former would be preferred (by runners, too, I'd assume) which would entail that every submission should include the reset before the run starts.
Further, I think it needs to be specified that offline runs will be subject to more scrutiny and that further proof can be required in particular cases. So far, we've been lucky that there haven't been any questionable submissions yet (at least to my knowledge), but we should be ready just in case, imo.

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category names

This is a very minor point, but I think it's important to open it up to the community. There are varying opinions on category naming in various speedrunning communities.
My own suggestion would be to rename "Any% Glitchless" to just "Glitchless". Other opinions and suggestions are welcome.

masterkratosmasterkratos, LeKukieLeKukie and 6 others like this. 
  pianistmanpianistman

Naming it 'Glitchless' makes perfect sense. Standardizing timing makes sense. Emulator runs (and all runs) should include the reset of the previous run to help prove legitimacy - I thought this was always the rule, honestly, though I'm clearly mistaken.

Thank you, Deer, for the time, patience, effort, and kindness you show in this community.

LeKukieLeKukie and Oh_DeeROh_DeeR like this. 
  PipackPipack

One thing I would like to say here is to list rules in some sort of dot point format. Most games, this one somewhat included, just pile all of the rules in a slab of text. Better separating sentences/rules makes it much easier to process and digest rules and could also help people who aren't the most proficient in English better understand the rules.

Anyway thank you for coming to my ted talk.

pianistmanpianistman, LeKukieLeKukie and Oh_DeeROh_DeeR like this. 
  dadinfinitumdadinfinitum

If we're dropping "any%" from glitchless, I think it only makes sense to drop it's use entirely (for consistency and standardization, as it seems we want), and use "Beat the Game." There's no way to measure a percentage of completion.

LeKukieLeKukie likes this. 
  LeKukieLeKukie

Looks good for me! Since the newer versions of the emulator show their versions when resetting, I'll keep just capturing the game without the menu and the tab because they pretty much look bad on the stream layout. But I'll show after every finished run the whole desktop with my cam so people can see everything that I'm doing. And I also like the idea of renaming the 'Any% Glitchless' to something else. Either just 'Glitchless' or 'Beat the Game's like @dadinfinitumdadinfinitum said.

masterkratosmasterkratos likes this. 
  masterkratosmasterkratos

I like the time put into this and also the changes mentioned. I wish every game would follow this for Game Boy. And as @LeKukieLeKukie said, the full emulator window looks ugly on stream. Full resets of emulator showing the emulator are definitely fine if it tells you like Gambatte to allow for cleaner full screen runs. My only reason for choosing Glitchless over Beat the Game is that Glitchless makes it clear you aren't breaking the game a lot (any%) vs. only using small glitches (Beat Wario). Thanks again DeeR for your strong lead in the community.

LeKukieLeKukie likes this. 
  dadinfinitumdadinfinitum

To clarify, I'm suggesting the following: "Any% Glitchless" be renamed "Glitchless" and "Any%" be renamed "Beat the Game."

LeKukieLeKukie likes this. 
  BeastFrisianBeastFrisian

i'm happy with most suggestions, but i'm against calling any% "beat the game"

LeKukieLeKukie likes this. 
  LeKukieLeKukie

Maybe call it 'Any% Wrong Warp' or 'Credits Warp' or something of that nature.

 
  Oh_DeeROh_DeeR

edit: added IL retiming method to the original post

I'll start working on rules phrasing and put my work-in-progress in the reserved post above, so people can make suggestions and point out mistakes.

chris_runschris_runs likes this. 
  AdamFerrari64AdamFerrari64

I like Typwo’s suggestion of “glitchless” and “glitched” for the 2 any% categories. But I’m happy with whatever the categories end up being called. 🙂