Super Mario Bros. Forum  /  Framerules and Enemy Spawns
  skyehoppersskyehoppers

Hey, I've been having trouble with a couple spots on the run I'm currently going for due to the variable enemy position. Mostly the parakoopas at the end of 8-2. First, I'm never sure whether to go under or jump over the one right before the big gap until it's too late. Is there an easy tell for that? Also the little pit with the three parakoopas and the bullet bills is giving me a headache. Is there any one movement that will get me by every pattern or do I just have to adapt? This leads me into a few semi-technical questions about enemy spawn patterns and framerules. Like, I know the Hammer Bros. in 8-3 depend on the framerule but

1. Are their movements locked when you enter the level?
2. Or does the pattern change every time you lose 21 frames before encountering them?
3. Or does it change every frame and "depends on the framerule" assumes you don't slow down.

And do the 8-2 parakoopas follow the same rule? Darbian mentioned in his tutorial that the one before the gap does, but what about the ones after?

Thanks!

 
  DarpeyDarpey
(edited: )

Anecdotally - it appears to be the case that slowing down in a level does affect enemy behavior later in the level.

The 8-2 over/under koopa is the same on each "framerule" you're on, but you just kinda gotta feel for it if you don't know what rule you're on.

Your questions:

1. At least to me, it seems that IF you go the same speed, make no kills, and get no items, then all enemy behaviors will be the same. If you slow down, kill enemies, or get items, then the behaviors will deviate.

2. No, the "framerule" only applies to the beginning of a new level. At least in my experience, if you slow down, even by 1 frame, it will eventually affect what the baddies later on do.

3. If you slow down (in my experience), it does affect enemy behavior.

Most levels "slowing down" isn't really an issue if you don't explicitly mess up, except 8-2, because of the high jump, and the turtles immediately after.

There are 3 different patterns that the "parakoopas" can be on - which will act the same way every time you (1) enter a level on a certain framerule -AND- (2) go the same pace, make the same kills, and get the same items

The three different types of koopas and how to react to them is listed on the Gif tutorial post HERE --> https://www.speedrun.com/smb1/thread/uz8f3 --- but here it is again:

In all three cases, you START your jump on the exact same visual cue, and adapt based on what you see the koopa doing.

End stairs koopa low ~~~ For low koopa, do a maximum jump and bounce on the koopa
https://agenheimer.com/smb/8-2%20end%20stairs%20goomba%20low.gif

End stairs koopa high ~~~ The toughest one. For high koopa, let off jump and go under the koopa as shown
https://agenheimer.com/smb/8-2%20end%20stairs%20goomba%20high.gif

End stairs koopa stupid ~~~ For stupid koopa, let off jump and jump on the block shown
https://agenheimer.com/smb/8-2%20end%20stairs%20goomba%20stupid.gif

Twintail_NamiTwintail_Nami likes this. 
  skyehoppersskyehoppers

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to reply so thoroughly. Definitely bookmarking that gif thread. One more question though. Does the number of framerules that you let pass at the title screen before pressing START matter? I know for a while darbian waited like 8 seconds to set up BBG or something. Like should I always press start within a framerule of resetting the console?

 
  roopert83roopert83

Waiting on the title screen does change the patterns. The high level runners delay that because they find they get more favorable patterns.

For you, however, this isn't really going to matter until you get around the 5:00 range where your gameplay is consistent enough to know what framerule you're on and what you can expect. Feel free to wait 8 seconds if you want to, but you're getting nothing positive or negative by doing so except extra waiting for each attempt.

DarpeyDarpey likes this. 
  Lul_ecks_deeLul_ecks_dee
(edited: )

Waiting -3.62 seconds instead of -3.27 may very very minorly help you, because if you happen to be "perfect" (not including any BBG, FPG, none of those hard tricks) when you arrive in 8-2, and stomp on no koops, the koops before the big pit will be high so you can go under him if you have -3.62 delay, but he will be low and you will have to jump over him if you have -3.27 delay. That's just what I suggest because that koops has killed way more runs than it should have for me.