The Limit of 1-2
4 years ago

Over the past few days, I've been looking at 1-2 in order to see how much I could squeeze out of it. I think I have reached or come close to the limit. I was able to finish 5 frames away from the next framerule. For reference, this is 3 frames faster compared to HappyLee's warps TAS, but that TAS also sacrificed a frame for entertainment purposes. Here is my perfect 1-2 TAS: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1398002361/SMB1Perfect1-2.fm2 . It may be possible to save another frame in 1-2, but unfortunately, reaching the next framerule does not look to be possible.

It is very interesting how the pipe clip and wall clip methods in 1-2 are almost equal in speed. However, the pipe clip seems to be slightly faster. It is also possible to be fast enough for the optimal framerule without using any clips. Not too many people know that.

This strategy is slightly different than strategies of turning around in the warp zone in previous TASes, and it is way more precise. Previous TASes used a jump turnaround that was similar to the turnaround strategy used in 8-4. This TAS instead relies on a complete fast acceleration to turn around quickly. Upon performing the pipe clip, Mario's movement has to be manipulated in order to not pass x-position ($3ad) 125. With this x-position, it is possible to make a subpixel-perfect stop on the second pipe (stopping on the last subpixel of the pipe) and begin turning around to the World 4 pipe.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Otterstone_Gamer, Thelxinoe and 4 others like this
Oklahoma, USA

"It is also possible to be fast enough for the optimal framerule without using any clips. Not too many people know that."

Whaaaat? With the normal turnaround? Can you explain what you mean and why nobody ever actually gets it?

zdoroviy_antony likes this

He probably means that you can use left plus right to get a faster turnaround and save the framerule. I've seen few people do this in tases because it's easier to clip. And by saying that not too many people know about it is because no one thinks to try it because they automatically assume it would be too slow, maybe because they don't know that you can do a faster turnaround with left plus right. Even if runners could use left plus right it would still be easier to clip since you have to do even harder inputs to get the optimal turnaround.

Israel

I can't download the file

United States

Watch how the TAS does 4-2 warp zone, and that's how you would save the framerule with no clip.

Ukraine

I don't know if it is important enogh to necro this thread, so I'm sorry, mods. But here I did it little bit differently. With new strategy we don't need L+R for the clip and RTA setup can give absolutely same perfect subpixel! It is even easier to not pass x-position "125" with this way of clipping. And I don't think that it is possible to save anything from this after I tested other ways of clipping and non of them gave to me "125" x-position with any subspeed or subpixel.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Gaster319 likes this
Ukraine

I tried more and saved 7 subpixels over Maru's TAS. However it is not enough to save the frame or eventual subpixel, because I need certain subpixel for perfect turnaround. Maybe it is not possible to save another frame. It is possible to do same with backward jump to clip, but without left+right. But I wanted to leave this verion, so people wouldn't think that backward clip is faster. It is absolutely same. Here are the inputs.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Th3Re4l and Gaster319 like this
New Hampshire, USA

Saving subpixels? I don't think you "save" subpixels and you don't save time by doing so, if it's possible.

Ukraine

@Mars02 It is posible to see only with Sockfolder's ROM or RAM watch. Maru said himself that it possible to optimize clip a little bit. I actually did a jump to warp zone 1 frame earlier then Maru. If I jumped in frame, when Maru jumped, Mario would fall down without jumo, because I saved subpixels. But jumping to warp zone 1 frame eralier not helping to do a turnaround jump 1 frame earlier.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Th3Re4l and Gaster319 like this

Mars02: "Saving subpixels? I don't think you "save" subpixels and you don't save time by doing so, if it's possible."

If one more subpixel could be saved in the 8-4 walljump room, the SMB1 warps TAS would be one frame faster.

Regarding the clip, another frame might be possible to squeeze out of the TAS, but it would require some tight optimizations to be able to stop on the perfect subpixel one frame earlier.

Ukraine

It isn't dumb question and I dont't really know, honestly.

Oklahoma, USA

My understanding is "subpixel" is just something smaller than a "pixel" it's like asking "how many fractions equal 1... That depends... On how big your fraction is.

Mario visually moves one" "pixel" every time we see him move, but on the BACK END he's moving some unknown amount of distance every frame we hold right. It just snaps to a certain pixel on screen that we can see, since the game operates on concrete and dichotomous pixels - and Mario can't move 72% of a pixel, even if that's the actual back end distance he's traveled. He either moves 0, 1 or 2 pixels as integers. But sometimes those fractional pixels make a difference on how the game interacts with obstacles. Like if you walk (not run) over a single block hole roughly half the time you'll fall in and half the time you'll go over it based on you subpixel... Or in other words, based on how far Mario's distance variable really is (not just where he LOOKS like he is)

Same thing with fpg and bbg. You can obviously be on the right visual pixel, but unless the back end variable is within a certain range smaller than the visual pixel, it won't work

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Gaster319, LeKukie and 2 others like this
Ukraine

X-position maipulation can save framerule if go to world 3 pipe. Pretty sure it had been known, but TAS into world 3 pipe wasn't used

Ukraine

Here are all the ways of doing 1-2 in 1 video: 1.Perfect "125" x-position on screen, 5 frames off next framerule. 2."124" x-position with stopping on pipe and fast acceleration backwards - 1 frames slower. 3.Old style (pipe clip) 4.Old style (wall clip) 5.No left+right (this is how 1-2 can be done slightly faster in SMB RTA rules TAS as Maru said in https://www.speedrun.com/smb1/thread/1wd01) 6.Saving this framerule without a clip (for SMB Almost glitchless TAS)

zsjetu9 likes this
Ukraine

A side by side comparison of 4 fastest versions. Looks like same at 100% of speed. Difference is just 0.033 seconds.

zsjetu9 likes this
Ukraine

By the way, for minus world pipe perfect clip gives "-7", what is 4 frames faster then in RTA setup.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Lul_ecks_dee likes this

@zdoroviy_antony Hold up, is it possible to go faster than -3 in RTA for entering minus world?

Gaster319 likes this
Ukraine

RTA setup doesn't gives better then "-3". TAS includes optimizations like fast accel by LR inside wall, L+R jump to clip and right releases. And, of course, don't forget about perfect fast acceleration at the start of the level. So here are the 4 frames. But I suppose that RTA setup is close to next frame, because TAS is 3 frames faster then perfect RTA clip, if go to world 2 pipe. However, it needs harder clip in RTA then for "-3". Nice challenge for you, by the way. Fastest with RTA clip "2-G".

Edited by the author 4 years ago
mouseman likes this
Ukraine

1 more subpixels saved by Maru at the 1-2 warp zone by left release befor final fast accel to manipulate subspeed perfectly. Not enough to save the frame.

Ukraine

1 more subpixels saved by Maru at the 1-2 warp zone by left release befor final fast accel to manipulate subspeed perfectly. Not enough to save the frame.

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