The Kid skip
8 years ago
Île-de-France, France

Well one problem I have with this is that it uses a warpzone replay, and I think it would be quite inconsistent to say "you can save warpzone replays, which isn't intended, but you can't replay warpzone levels to dupe bandages". But if we end accepting this, I hope we'll allow this in any% (and every other category actually) as well:

United States

Fair point. To that end, I'd note that replaying a level to dupe bandages duping corrupts the save, whereas saving a replay of a warp zone doesn't inherently do so. Saving replays is a built-in function of the game, whereas bandage duping is not. The fact that the game is even capable of saving replays of warp zone levels without crashing is evidence that such functionality may have been intended by the developers, although it may not have been vetted thoroughly at all.

French Southern Territories

This one looks cool. I have seen a few skips with replay glitch like Larry skips(check HommeViande's videos). If Kid Skip is allowed, maybe other skips will get popular. I don't run 106% but beware of one thing : if you allow one replay glitch, it might mean allowing more.

Finland

I think 106% has been viewed as category where you do all, finishing a run is more about proving you've beaten all levels and collected all bandages instead of seeing the number 106% in the end. I think the old example of allowing people with bugged 7-19x to get "pass" on the level if they reached almost the end of it is a proof of this. With replay copying you'd prob end up not playing any of the warpzones that are longer than some copyable ones. Soul of 106% would be lost with any replay use imo.

Just to be sure, you use replays gathered from the run in action right? If so, I can't imagine there to be any reason to ban any replay abuse in the true any% (<5min) category. I'm not deep enough into scene or the possibilities of replay abuse to have educated opinion on what it'd do for the other middle length categories. But I'll stick with hoping 106% would always stay clean of any copying.

Gaurox, Mijzical and 2 others like this
United States

I was thinking about that too, Ouga. The current goal of the category calls for "completing every level, warpzone, and Glitch Girl in the game." I don't know if we can truly consider replay glitching through character warps as a form of "completion."

By the same hand, every screen of the game would still be seen by the player and viewed as "completed" by the game. How do we define "completion?" In Any% with wrong warp, the game doesn't recognize the player as beating chapters 2-5. Thus, it's fair to give it its own category. I don't know if the same logic applies to this use of the replay glitch. After all, it's not causing massive structural changes to the game - this particular glitch only operates within character warp zones. In some cases, like Jill, probably Ogmo, and Flywrench, it'll be faster to complete the character warp zone traditionally anyways. The community needs to decide: is this a small-scale enough glitch to the point where the speedrun is "intact?"

We need to start considering as a community whether we're going to continue to ignore new findings for the sake of tradition or whether we're going to embrace new glitch applications like most other speedrunning communities tend to. I understand both camps - the prospect of including this glitch that essentially auto-completes the Kid levels for the player is shitty to those who have spent hours mastering the warpzone. And as Pack said, there is certainly a risk that we could be opening up a can of glitchy worms if it turns out that this glitch is more OP than previously expected. For the moment, I would be receptive to opening up the option for people to incorporate this iteration of the replay glitch into their runs and specify that the player uses the glitch on their leaderboard entries. But I'm just of one mind - keep the input coming!

PackSciences likes this
French Southern Territories

When Save Deletion glitch was found in Half-Life 2, all runners got a poll in which they could vote for specific details of the rules. How about a serious poll with different clear questions to define how you imagine the Super Meat Boy speedrunning ?

United States

Between the poll I ran in my chat yesterday and the opinions of people in this thread, it seems that the majority of people want all replay manipulations to remain banned from runs for now. I'll update the language of the rules accordingly.

Waterford, Ireland

I think you hit the nail on the head. Replay glitches just aren't popular. I mean alt has been around forever but theres 2 people? doings alt 106%. I see no problem with opening a new category but I think the old one should keep the name.