Forums  /  Meat Boy series  /  Super Meat Boy  /  Alt 106% or DE ? Divided Any% category ?
  HankyuHankyu

So these are probably stupid questions, and they've also probably already been asked and answered. If it actually is the case, my bad, sorry 😛

So, why isn't there an Alt 106% category ? Or an Alt dark ending ? These could be sub categories.
Also why isn't Any% divided in 2 categories ? "Glitchless" or "legacy" and "auto-bounce glitch" (or whatever it is supposed to be called)
If there was a Glitchless/legacy Any% category, it would probably encourage more people to try it this way.

I don't want to act like a mod that I'm not or anything, but this is just to get a better idea of people's thoughts about this subject, 2 strawpolls :
http://www.strawpoll.me/10252274 (multiple choices are allowed for this poll so please be fair-play and don't mess with it)
http://www.strawpoll.me/10252289

If the answers to the polls are positive, it's possible the mods consider changing stuff I guess, so yeah, hopefully this will help 🙂

EDIT : Also I know it would be a huge work for the mods to re-verify every Any% runs to put them in the new sub-categories, but it could still be done. Plus they could "hire" volunteers to do that, I do believe there would be some (me included).

 
  AvetixzAvetixz

If there is a new category for every glitch it will just overflow the leaderboard with categories and the world records in those categories will become meaningless. This is kind of already the case with the Any% (Major Glitches) ones, so I don't think this is needed for even less popular categories.

 
  Ya-GGYa-GG

In my opinion, a glitchless category isn't meaningful, because people in the past already reached sub 20 without the auto-jump strat' on any%.

I think the first and main reason to start the speedrun of Super Meat Boy is the challenging difficulty, and even if the auto jump makes some levels easier, the game still remains tough to do decent runs. That's probably why autojump is allowed on any category.

However, using alt is completely different, changing the game to an OOB run, which is just dodging all the spicy fun. If most of the runners really wanted to use alt glitch as serious stuff, the categories you're submitting would be already there. And that's not the case.

But that doesn't prevent you to try Alt 106% or Alt Dark Ending if you want to.

OmegaFallonOmegaFallon likes this. 
  HankyuHankyu

You guys are making good points, and I understand perfectly well why you think Alt 106% or Alt DE shouldn't exist, or at least not be a main category, and I agree with you.

Though, about Any%, I think of it this way :
Take the example of a guy who'd like to any% speedrun the game but wants to do it the way it was "supposed" to be done. Let's say he does his run, gets a pretty good time (let's say sub 20) and gets something like rank 50th. He would find it a little unfair to be compared to people (even though with great skills) who used a glitch.
BUT, if there was an any% glitchless category (or sub-category), maybe he would only have slightly improved his rank, but it would be 100% fair and he would be happy about his rank because again, it would be fair.

Sorry for the bad english, I hope you get what I mean.

 
  kingshroomskingshrooms

If these sound fun to you don't let that stop you from trying them regardless if there is a leader board for them. I think it would be a lot more likely to see these categories on the leader board if there were more people running them.

Emilio_Emilio_ likes this. 
  UberUber

Reason why there isn't a category spot on the leaderboards for alted or ww'd dark ending or 106% is simply because no one has ran any of those. If there was a (decent) run of any of them I would be in favor of adding a glitched variant of the main categories to the leaderboard.
As for dividing the any%s, no. We don't need a sub-category for every glitch that is found and the ones currently allowed for any% aren't game changing enough to set them into a new category as alt/ww are. Legacy% is so similar to any% that imo if you're running legacy% you're just running a slower version of any% and might as well run that.

Emilio_Emilio_ likes this. 
  Ya-GGYa-GG

As I said above, the Auto-jump made some tricks more easier to do, but it is possible to do them without it. More difficult, but still possible.

But Sooner or later, if runners really want to get serious rank on the leaderboard, they learn the auto-jump strats.

warm_hamwarm_ham likes this. 
  MatteMatte

Also the difference between the current any% category and glitchless any% would be quite minimal, only about 10 seconds.

warm_hamwarm_ham likes this. 
  HankyuHankyu

Alright, I understand you guys's points of views.

To Kingshrooms :
Yea you're right, and that's why I don't insist on the idea of Alt 106% or Alt DE. I don't think it would be super fun to me, or at least not as fun as the other categories. Now about the Any% Glitchless category I already do that but there's no particular category dedicated to it.

To Uber :
I know this glitch isnn't truly game changing, though it permits skips that can offer up to 30+ seconds of advance on a complete run, which can be a real difference especially when it comes to sub 19.

To Yjijiy :
It is true that all the any% tricks are possible in glitchless, though someone who doesn't want to play with this glitch (and there are already many people in this case) shouldn't be placed in the same leaderboard as the ones who do, simply because it would need more skills to achieve the same time in a run. It's (even though not as different) a little like putting alt any% in the same leaderboard as Any%. I just don't think runs which use a glitch that permits to bounce the fastest way possible should be compared to ones that use jumps that are fast or slow depending on the skill level of the runner.

 
  HankyuHankyu

I'm only reading your message now Matte sorry. It's only my opinion obviously but I do think it saves more than 10 secs.

 
  warm_hamwarm_ham

thanks for raising these questions, hank. the concept of adding a separate "legacy" category is an interesting one, but unviable at this stage in the history of meat boy speedruns. in addition to it cluttering our already-cluttered leaderboards and being a pretty labor-intensive undertaking, current runners understand autojump/pause buffering as part of the basic movement tech skillset for running this game, and that's the way it's been for a rather long time. i can't imagine a scenario in which a groundswell of old and new runners would stop autojumping just for the sake of posting a run to a leaderboard that bans a minor glitch which has been widely used in any% runs for years now. as it stands, any% remains an essentially glitchless category even WITH the autojump, so - as matte said - the differences in times between the categories would be negligible at best (see exo's time vs. vorpal's WR - a good chunk of vorpal's improvement over exo's time is attributable to better optimization rather than the use of autojump). as far as autojump being a barrier to entry, new runners typically figure out that autojump makes it way easier to quickly complete a number of levels, so i don't think we can claim the glitch as a deterrent factor.

yes, i would definitely add alt 106 or dark ending to misc categories if people ran them!

Emilio_Emilio_ likes this. 
  HankyuHankyu

Your answer opens my eyes a little more on some points, thank you for that.