Doing Some Catch Up
8 years ago
Minnesota, USA

Hello guys! It's been quite awhile since I dipped back into the Speedrun.com scene. I think Zewing may be the only one who might remember me. XD Sorry about disappearing, man... But that doesn't mean I haven't been running this game on the side!

However, I haven't been very good at keeping up with this game and its breakings so I thought I'd throw myself into this small group to finally learn everything I gotta know before I make another serious run. My last attempt back in May is pretty far behind.

http://secretstabby.tumblr.com/post/119521104669/welp-i-did-another-timed-run-this-fine-evening#notes

(I don't have working recording stuff so I don't have a video, unfortunately. Hopefully someday!)

So in order to catch up, I have a couple questions. I hope you don't mind me asking here...

I skimmed through the recent WR run and saw that both times Jub was coming back from Cape Claw early, the gate to The Lightfoot Tribe was despawned. Is there a consistent way of having that happen? Because whenever I do it, more often than not it's still there and I can't get through it.

And since you can get into Lightfoot Village early the second time you're coming back from Cape Claw, would it be faster to grab the blocks, activate the bit where the Lightfeet attempt to turn Fox into a shishkabob, and then place the blocks? Instead of getting them afterwards and having to slowly climb up that latter to put them into their slots? Because that's what I do when the gate's missing. It wouldn't save THAT much time if it is a timesave, but a timesave's a timesave.

One more question for the time being: I recently attempted to skip the first Ground Quake and only get the Super Quake. For awhile that went without a hitch.... Until I needed to use it during the second visit to Walled City... Yet Jub seems to have a setup to make it work. How do you preform such sorcery? Because right now I can't force Fox to do it and the game is more or less unbeatable. I saw that there are ways to get the Sun and Moon Stones still but it's slower so I don't think it'd be useful for me to learn to do those.

Pennsylvania, USA

Long time no see stabby!

I unfortunately can't answer those question, these forums aren't really active but I think Jub could answer those when he gets on this forum again.

Minnesota, USA

Heyyy Zewing! I wouldn't have been surprised if you had forgotten me since I only showed up once but I'm happy to be remembered! C:

Mmkay! I shall wait around for him then. Thank you!

Colorado, USA

Another person had the same problem with the Light Foot Village Gate. Sadly, I don't have an answer or have I found a cause to that problem. It's never happened to me once. I've tried messing around with it, but couldn't get the gate to load while the outside area of Light Foot Village is unloaded. I'm very bad at calculating timesaves, but the route change you mentioned does seem promising. I'll look into that as well. Lastly, I get the Superquake to activate by first setting it to Y. Then I go into the C stick menu and press A on FireBlaster. Finally, I press A and Y at the same time. The reason that the superquake doesn't normally activate is because the game checks for ground quake when you get superquake.

Minnesota, USA

Hello Jub!

Aw man, really? Damn. Well I guess it'll be up to the RNG gods until I figure out exactly how/why this happens. If there even is a reason. It might just be the disk I have's problem? Maybe I should buy it again... We'll see!

It's ok, man. I'm not so great at them either, which is why I'm unsure if it saves any time or not. But if it feels faster it might be faster, right? XD

I figured that's why it doesn't like to work. But thank you for the explanation! I'll give it a try soon! :D I'm very excited about the Ground Quake skip since no-one has to sit through the dumbest cutscene in the game anymore (the MMP one with the talking Krazoa). I can't be more thankful for this skip.

Thank you again Jub for giving me a hand! I'll let you know if I have any more questions. I think I only have small route questions now but I think those will be answered after completely going through your WR run. c:

Minnesota, USA

Hate to bump my own thing but I don't think it's worth making a totally new thread about.

So I remembered that I DO have two copies of SFA and decided to play the one that I don't usually play on for fun. Which ended up leading me to an interesting suspicion...

I think there are two kinds of NTSU copies of SFA that act a little differently from one another. Why do I think that?

In earlier posts Jub and I talked about how the gate in the Lightfoot Tribe area always disappears for him, but usually doesn't for me. Playing this other copy I had lying around last night, the gate was gone the first time I broke my way to Cape Claw. Maybe it's coincidence... I'll let you know if it's gone my second time through. But I think it's actually version-dependent.

Another thing I noticed was that when I looked at Cape Claw all glitched out and loaded as a box in the vast nothingness, this other version's box was colored. The box I'm used to seeing is totally grey instead. I noticed that Jub also has a colored Cape Claw box instead of a grey one. So that's interesting.

There were some other minor things that went differently, one instance being after beating Galdon and going through the final Dark Ice Mines cutscene. I'm used to immediately being able to see and go to the Arwing but on this other copy there's a little bit of blackout time before I can see anything (but could still control Fox).

I'm still working my way through the game on this other copy to see what other differences await me but I'll be sure to update you guys on my other findings.

I theorize that one disk might be the Player's Choice version and the other is older but I'm not totally sure.

If this has already been discovered, I'm sorry for repeating old news. I just haven't seen it talked about anywhere else.

Also I'm really sorry that I'm having a hard time explaining these findings very well. They're hard to describe... If I ever get proper recording equipment maybe I can show the findings instead.

Minnesota, USA

Errr hope you guys don't mind that I'm bumping my own thread like this but I found a new(?) discovery! At least for me.

Soooo I was fighting King Redeye and things were pretty much normal. I had low health (1 and 1/4th hearts) but as if I wasn't gonna get hurt by him until the end. On the final bomb I figured I wouldn't die since getting blown up when King Redeye lands on Fox only takes a whole heart, so I'd be alive but just barely. Weellll as the cutscene was fading in I somehow took one more bit of damage and died. Upon saving and continuing, the game put me back in the chamber with the King Earthwalker but let me keep the third Spellstone.

I my initial thought was "sweet! Maybe I'm onto something here!" That is until I realized that I didn't bother opening the chamber before going to fight King Redeye to try out the new route and now I'm stuck in this hole with Tricky's dad and no known way to escape.

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that this can't be used? You might be able to escape if you have either of the Ground Quakes handy. Or if you can somehow find a way to push through the wall that keeps you down there. I can't test it now because I'm stuck as hell but that's one way to skip a cutscene and keep the goodies you get from it! Though it might take as long or to get the Super Quake first/run back to the Arwing to leave... I'll have to play around with it. Feel free to do the same!

Don't know if this has happened to anyone else so I figured I'd throw it out there.

On another note, the gate was gone the second time I was coming back from Cape Claw in Lightfoot Village. That kind of luck for me is almost unheard of when I played my other disk so I do really think it's version-dependent on how often it's despawned.

Colorado, USA

The only evidence I could find of there being two versions of the game was on a rom website that had versions 1.00 and 1.01. I don't think you're problem is the regional versions. The game was released in US, Japan, Europe, and Australia. I use to think that the regional versions caused the different loading storage boxes. If both of the versions you have are NTSC with one having grey boxes and the other having colored boxes, then it's the update versions that determine the color of the boxes, and is most likely the reason why you couldn't get the Light Foot Village Gate to load on one disc. When I regain control after Galdon, I can also control while the screen is still faded. I know where the Arwing is so I can trigger the Arwing cutscene right as the screen fades in. That red eye king discover sounds VERY useful. Frankly, the new route I use that involves NOT opening the underground makes VERY little difference. Opening the underground BEFORE red eye king and then getting the effect you got would skip the red eye king death cutscene and the following cutscene, saving quite a bit of time since the first one is fairly long. I tried messing around with Red eye and tried getting the same result you did. The only way I see it is that you let him fall onto the barrel while letting the explosion damage you as well (Full Heart). Then his head wacks you as it is moving around during the fade out (Half Heart) It is likely frame perfect. Either that or I have the whole idea wrong. Just to be sure, you weren't mistaking the third spellstone for the first one?

Minnesota, USA

No, it isn't a regional thing. Both of my copies are NTSC. Again, I think one may be the Game of the Year and the other one is an older version. But that's merely a suspicion. XD When I have recording stuff I'll be sure to record the differences.

Yeah I'm much more used to being able to see the Arwing immediately after those cutscenes so I struggled a little with the blackscreen the first time. XD Almost went into the lava!

Oh! Well then! I hope that comes in handy! Though I'm really sorry if it's frame perfect. Getting that every time is going to be a pain. 8( Though coming up with a set up might not be too hard... There are plenty of ways to get hurt before and during that boss. It's just getting that exact set of health that might be the most difficult. Needless to say, I'm pretty sure you've got the right idea Jub! That's exactly how I got it to work!

... Speaking of frame perfect, I probably should warn you guys about this really nasty (and probably frame perfect) glitch I got once. It was in Dark Ice Mines. You know that pad you have to toot the Dinosaur Horn on to get the Snowhorn to come out of the blizzard? I once collected a Grubtub at the same time I blew the horn and it completely cancelled out the cutscene. I was unable to progress because the Snowhorn never came out. It hasn't happened to me since but that's because I don't bother to collect that Grubtub anymore in fear it might happen again. So be careful of that!

And no, I'm not mistaking the third for the first. I've tried dying right as the cutscene activated for Galdon too just to see what happens but it's much harder for me. I always die too soon. :/ I really don't know what would happen if you got handwaved the first Spellstone like you do with the third. I can't imagine where it would spawn you. Heh, maybe you'll just get an extra Spellstone 1 sitting in your inventory and have to fight Galdon again for all I know.

EDIT: Oh!! I wanted to know if you guys knew about this one other thing... Did you know that you are still in control of Fox when you watch the cutscene that opens the Gas Chamber in Cape Claw? I cannot get the movements right for the life of me to get Fox down the latter while that's going and usually fall off the bridges... If someone figures out those movements (or already has) please let me know! I always get really angry about that bit. XD

Colorado, USA

Hypothetically speaking, if cut scene skips were a regular thing, they would only be possible by interruption within the cutscene or the frame before the cutscene. Chances are they won't be RTA viable.

When I asked if you mistook the 3rd spellstone for the 1st, I meant the actual spellstone in your inventory. If you die during the Red Eye King and save at any point, you'll always be put back where the King Earth Walker is. During a speedrun, you still have the first spellstone with you and the symbol would be at the top of the screen whether you got the third stone or not. Did you happen to check if you had both volcano spellstones in your inventory?

If you did in fact get the third spellstone without watching the cutscenes, and if there were to be a set up that made it RTA viable, it still might not be used in RTA. This is because you would have to airswim around the map to get the superquake since you don't have ground quake to open the underground, then open the underground. Then you would have to airswim AGAIN to get to Red Eye King Early. Getting the super quake this way already seems longer or about the same as the cutscene lengths.

This isn't a conclusion. Just the first thing that came to mind.

And yes, I did know about taking control during the gas chamber gate cutscene. At times, I would forget about it and hold right on the control stick to ready the input for when the cutscene ends. I usually end up hanging off the platform near the ladder. I've also just fiddled with the control stick during it and often headed towards the sharpclaw panel.

One more thing, if you have cases for both SFA discs, does one of them have "Player's Choice" at the top while the other doesn't?

Minnesota, USA

It wasn't so much a possible trick, it was more of a warning. It is an immediate run killer if it happens to you (unless you save right before that blizzard bit). I had to start from scratch because I made the mistake of saving and reloading my game after it happened and the game was still uncompleteable.

OH! I'm sorry. I didn't mean to misunderstand what you meant! The answer is yes, I'm very sure it was the third one sitting in there because I had two volcano Spellstones in my inventory after I died and respawned. Are you unable to replicate what I did? I'll try to redo what I did and get back to you on it.

Not necessarily? I thought you could use that waterfall rock to jump your way to the "off limits" side of the Walled City and simply run around the Moon Temple the other side instead of taking forever to swim under the map. Does that make sense? I'm pretty sure that's possible and much faster than swimming. Though whether or not it's faster to collect the Super Ground Quake before facing King Redeye might still be up for debate.

Hmm, alright. Thanks for the tip! I'll try fiddling with it the next time I play too. See if I can get something consistent.

Sadly one of the disks came in an unofficially marked case. I got from a old video game shop a few years back. So I can't confirm and that's why I consider it a suspicion. The other one has an official case but it doesn't have "Player's Choice" at the top. (I don't know why I kept thinking it was "Game of the Year", sorry about any confusion.)

Pennsylvania, USA

Can you check each game disk, on the under side there should be a code. Does one of theme read DOL-0-00 and DOL 0-0A?

Colorado, USA

The one I have is DOL 0-00

Minnesota, USA

One says DOL 0-00, but the other says DOL 0-01.

Pennsylvania, USA

i meant to say 0-01 lol

Version 0-00 translates to V1.0, aka first release

Version 0-01 translates to V1.1, the "patched" release

Minnesota, USA

Okie dokie! Thank you for clarifying that Zewing! :D

Alright guys, I was able to replicate what I did with King Redeye! It really does work and was done on the V1.0 version. I'll try it on the patched version as well at some point and let you guys know if it works on there too. But for now, here's the theoretically faster way to do Walled City 1:

When you gain control of Fox, immediately go to the waterfall and get onto the "off limits" part of Walled City.

Instead of doing air swim right away, go around the Moon Temple to get to the side of Walled City where you get the Super Ground Quake.

Get Super Ground Quake.

Jump into the river, get back onto the center island, and do the time attacks to open the King Earthwalker's chamber, starting with the Sun side first? It might not matter.

After opening the chamber, go to the waterfall again and do the swim in air trick to get to King Redeye early.

Before you enter the boss arena, be sure you have 1 and 1/4ths health. You can hit Tricky to get hurt if you just need a blip or two of health diminished. Do not take damage during the fight with King Redeye if you have this exact amount of health, it may permanently ruin your chances of getting this glitch to work and you'll just have to deal with two extra cutscenes. It's not a run killer but it does cost time.

When you get to the final part of the boss, be sure you're hit by the bomb first (to take away one whole heart of damage) and then be sure to be right nexr to Redeye's head and get hit just as the screen fades to black. If you do not get it the first time, you will not get a second chance. If you die during the fight, die too soon, or quit after beating Redeye to attempt it again, you'll kill your run because the only way to regain access to the boss is to legitimately open the gate.

When you die, save and continue the game. You'll respawn right in front of King Earthwalker and a second Spellstone should be sitting in your inventory. If it's there, walk back to the Arwing and fly off. The game recognizes that you got the 3rd Spellstone because General Pepper won't scold you for going back to the planet too soon. A side effect to this trick is that you won't get the extra heart since you get it through a cutscene but you will get two hearts after beating Drakor on Dragon Rock, bringing you back up to the correct amount of health.

Sorry if any of this is confusing, I'm not good at explaining stuff... But it DOES work for sure! Again, I'm not totally sure it's faster but it could be! And it'd be nice if there were less cutscenes to sit through.

Colorado, USA

Could you go into more detail on how you take damage exactly? Did you let his head fall onto the barrel? Did you wait until his head was on the ground and then throw it? What side of his head were you at? Does his head have to shove you against the wall for the final hit? Also. I never knew Tricky blew fire if you hit him enough times. XD

Minnesota, USA

Sure!

Sometimes if his head falls on you while you still have the barrel in hand, the explosion will get you first and then he'll shove your against the wall with his head, killing you just in time to get the Spellstone. That's what happened when I got it on accident.

After a couple failed attempts of doing that same thing (I'd get hit by his head first somehow and only took half a heart of damage instead :/), I stepped to the side to avoid him landing on top of me, threw the bomb while making sure I was close enough to get hit by the explosion first, and then let King Redeye swing his head into me as the camera fades out, taking an extra bit of damage and dying right on time.

Haha yeah he does that, the little shit. I guess Rare knew people would hit him. XD

Colorado, USA

Ok, it's incredibly easy now. All I have to do is run into the left side of his head, causing the barrel to explode and damage me. Then I would let him swing me into the wall and kill me. I was assuming that I needed to have the cutscene fade in and then get the game over. So, yes, this is RTA viable. I'm thinking about making a huge comparison video of all three walled city routes. Excellent find!

Minnesota, USA

That's great! :D And I'm sorry that I made things confusing. I'll try to be more clear next time. 8(

Oh man that's awesome! I look forward to seeing that video if you do decide to make it!

While I'm here I'm going to add another note as far as version differences go:

I noticed when you're protecting the Hightop on Dragon Rock, the game makes you wait until he reaches the door before the cutscene activates in the 1.0 version. In the 1.01 version, almost as soon as you take out the final missile the cutscene activates.

Nothing huge but it is a small time saver.

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