R/ESW was banned because it was basically New Game+. However, on an empty memory card, it does not make sense to ban it. Unbanning it would better capture the spirit of Any%.

This will not ruin the category. If my timing is correct, it could only reduce the WR by up to 8 minutes with current discoveries. Also, it will make glitch hunting this game fun again. So many more ideas and theories are possible now.

Edit: Due to the WC2 soft-lock, the save might be something comical like 1m, or it may even be worse. This discussion will need to be revisited when/if we make a breakthrough.

I'm proposing the following rules:
- No setup files allowed. All runs must start with all 3 save slots empty.
- No use of built in cheat codes.
- No use of Turbo controllers or controller mods.

K4 early is possible with a Turbo controller. If runners prefer this route, we could discuss this as a category split, but most communities ban these since it is technically "tool assisted" and prohibitive to new runners.

there should be:
Any% clean memory card
Any% no clean memory card (new name for ESW)
and Any% no ESW/RESW (for the actual category)

I'm thinking that to make this game's board not look too cluttered, we should have sub categories in Any% and 100% with what @josejavier1158josejavier1158 suggested in a similar fashion to how the SM64 board looks.

@Dark-X-raneDark-X-rane I think maybe glitchless & 100% should go to the misc section

I like the categories. My personal preference is that the main category changes, but it would be good to hear from the runners and get everyone's vote on this. My preference:
- Any% (Main category, rules that I posted above)
- Any% no R/ESW
- Any% with ESW setup file

Skyward Sword is very similar in this regard (https://www.speedrun.com/lozss/full_game). The main Any% route allows BIT and Reverse BIT, and they have a separate category for "Any% No BIT".

Edit: I have no preference on which categories are collapsed under Misc.

@josejavier1158josejavier1158 Not 100%, replace ESW in the Misc. category with glitchless maybe if the current ESW category ends up being a sub category to Any%.

we need the opinions from jub and Celestial and others interested in run it

@josejavier1158josejavier1158 I did talk to Celest about this and he seems like he's easing up to the idea of allowing ESW/RESW with no premade files. I can't talk for him of course this is just how I feel rn, but I think that he's waiting for someone to test out the actual route to see how much time ESW/RESW saves in Any% and if it will end up being as broken as the current ESW cat. Which I will be testing out this weekend.

Jubjub seems indifferent: https://twitter.com/JubJubster62/status/1357851303976738817

we need someone to run with the new route and rules, dont know if they actually gonna run in the short term

@josejavier1158josejavier1158 I'm going to be testing this out this weekend, most likely tomorrow, since the route seems to have been finalized.

If you can save time with ESW without using pre-existing files it should be allowed for normal Any%. Then again, I am not a runner. But that is generally how Any% goes.

My problem is and always will be about my personal enjoyment of the game. A flimsy argument, I know.

Either R/ESW +other glitches makes SFA significantly faster and there is some category split, or it isn't a significant difference, and as a result there is some rule change as opposed to a category split.

The first case would be much better, and I would be more than OK with it. However, the second outcome would be less than desirable.

I suppose my fear is that R/ESW alone will save a small enough time save as to not require a category split, and make the game less enjoyable to run overall.

Honestly, at this point I hope to see something game-changing. Now I say this under the complete assumption that a rule change or category split is inevitable.(As I believe I am the only person to even have an opposition to this, and it is flimsy at best.)
(Also, this is all under the obvious assumption that ESW+RESW save time in the first place.)

yeh. I don't have a definitive preference. light foot village rng would be gone, so cool. Not entirely familiar with the whole route atm, but it doesn't look to do any bad. new oob.
I guess my only opinion is that since it's not a premade file and everything is timed, it is any%.