“ I guess my logic with splitting was that if each of the four consoles are split (since they ARE all different hardware after all) then there theoretically shouldn't be an issue to have RTA for them then, because the whole "they load differently" thing goes out the window.”
The problem with this is that even two Xbox Ones may potentially load differently from each other, so RTA even when comparing the same platform isn’t going to be accurate.
@LeonShredfield When it became apparent that IGT was a mess with this game and the question about whether or not to do IGT or RTA started to come up originally I started looking closely at the IGT, loading, and other potential issues that could affect timing. I started testing things out on as many of the consoles as I had available to me, a Day One edition Xbox One, a One X, a Series X, a PS4 Pro, and a PS5. After diving deep into all of this, I went back and forth with my own feelings about which timing method would be better and eventually, after a ton of testing and talking with other console runners, I started to lean towards IGT. What made me start to lean that way was taking a look at the problems that both RTA and IGT presented.
The biggest issue with RTA is that there is no way to create parity in the timing, even if you break it down to each individual version of the consoles. It’s easiest to explain with looking at one console as an example. If you have an Xbox One S, the stock internal storage is a 5400rpm HDD that is connected through SATA II which limits the transfer bandwidth of the HDD. If you have an external HDD, one that is for all intents and purposes an identical HDD to the stock internal one, and you connect it though the USB3.0 ports on the One S, USB3.0 has a higher transfer bandwidth and will give you better load times. Connecting an external SSD would give you better load times than that. The changes in load times can be a couple of seconds for some loads, 10-20 seconds for others, and there’s potential for it to go higher for other ones. So, even separating down to the individual console level wouldn’t solve the load time variance unless you’re breaking it down to every possible storage combination.
The reason this isn’t as much of an issue for PC folks and their “RTA” is that they are not actually using RTA. The load removal tool can be looked at more like a new IGT than an actual RTA. It stops on loads, it stops on cutscenes, and it stops on pausing. PC runners utilize the same pause buffering as consoles can because the elevator load times have that much of an affect on the potential outcomes. With consoles, we’d have a true RTA because we don’t have a load removal tool, so every second from starting condition to ending condition counts against you.
With IGT, the biggest issues are that the timer is stopping for inventories being open, the map being open, pausing the game, and time spent in the dukes shop and also that the timer resets when you continue through death or restart. The load times are not much of an issue for IGT because you can use pause buffering on the loading areas that exist during gameplay, like the specific elevators and doors, and the IGT stops during all of the actual loading screens.
The RTA issues for consoles, IMO, carry more weight than the IGT issues because there’s nothing that can be done to make different load times better since they are going to vary from runner to runner, but with IGT you can simply write some rules that get rid of abusing the IGT. Not being able to die in a run absolutely sucks, and it makes the baby skip terrifying, but it’s a compromise that is made to allow for a more fair timing method.
Just, sharing this info since you were asking to get a better understanding.
Got my run rejected just cause the video didn't start from the main menu? I get it is a rule, but that is pedantic as hell when I started it from the save menu
Lots of runs have been rejected cus of them not starting it from main menu @RejectedGamerSam
That doesn't change the fact it's pedantic as hell. And a waste of both runners times and your times
I mean. If u had followed the rules, i wouldn't have rejected it. Also if u have a vod, just resubmit it.
I am not sure if there is still space open to discuss about the categories/rules now but currently with the no-death/restart "penalty" console runs can be even more frustrating to get good results especially when strats are getting tighter.
Wouldnt it be viable to accept like 1 or 2 resets for a run? It could be even ruled out that they have to be pinpoint within submission description. I am sure the git gud applies always but this rule wouldnt impact the upper boards too much but it will give more room for runs being successful and therefore encourage more people to run it.
Resets and deaths Reset the in game timer tactical resets are allowed but we have to see the checkpoint icon this is the fairest way of doing this
I fully understand the implications on timers thats why I suggested a minimalistic approach that would benefit probably many runs without being critically or even majorly unfair. Maybe I am not seeing something here but it doesnt seem like a bad solution besides creating probably some additional check work but the runs are getting verified anyways.
if we start allowing any deaths or restarts with console times will be inconsistent and unfair this is just simply the fairest way to do it
The best knife runners on pc can’t get through VOS without dying. Console VOS knife only is going to be empty for a long time before someone gets lucky enough to get through. Yes it’s luck because skill doesn’t protect from some of the combos on VOS. Too many one shot deaths in VOS at no fault of the knife runner.
knife only is supposed to be a challenge and we have already allowed the karambit for harder difficultys if we timed it RTA it would make it very pay to win for some platforms this is something we want to avoid this is ment to be a challenge that only the best of the best can do so if it stays empty for a while im ok with that.
How is console pay to win when everyone buys the same console? Especially on ps5 or XBSX where they already have nvme?
Explain how a factory system is pay to win? Even with a external ssd. So 50 dollars is pay to win?
@TheMrEnigma72 i mean you can litterally scroll up and read @zgl's post about how it's pay2win.
thats why i said some platforms but you pritty much answered your own question yes 50 dollars is pay to win some people cant afford 50 dollars and they would be put at a disadvantage this is simply not fair
I read that argument. Saying 2 factory xboxes or ps4 with different loading times is pay to win shows an inconsistency with the definition of pay to win.
Then using 50 dollars as pay to win. Then buying the game is pay to win. Sorry but that definition is being misused.
Definition of Pay2Win is that you have a different software than someone else, hence u are faster. I'm not sure you've read everything ZGL has posted in here, otherwise you'd probably not be so keen on RTA. Seems like the only reason u want RTA is cus u cant get a deathless run, and that's all practice. Even on PC you don't wanna die, like idk how this is even becoming a big topic for you.
Practice the game and you'll get deathless runs, do safe strats if it's a harder difficulty and you're not going for WR attempts, it's doable.
My only care was about VOS knife only. The other categories isn’t an issue.
I’ll just run that category on pc. It isn’t worth losing hundreds of hours for 1 perfect VOS knife run.
It makes zero sense to have 1 category that is almost impossible to accomplish. That’s a challenge run, not a speedrun.
