Hey all. So, I noticed some uhh... we'll just call it "discourse" over the verification process and the huge backlog of unverified runs, so I thought I'd make a suggestion that will (hopefully) make everyone happy?
Could we stick to a truly "first come first served" basis when it comes to submissions? IE, no more verifying a run just because you happened to be there live? The main reasoning for this being, it seems to causing frustration in the community when people see that such and such run was verified quicker than a run that's been waiting a few weeks etc. Like whether the runner who gets their run verified is prominent or not, it doesn't really matter, as realistically that's basically just saying, if you're lucky enough to have one of the board mods in your chat, you get to cut the line ahead of everyone else who submitted before you. It's a form of favoritism, really.
On top of which, yes, mods are volunteers, and everyone is working fulltime jobs etc., but using that statement, while also saying "we watch these live stream runs in our free time" while ALSO saying "when we verify runs, we scrutinize every little detail" are all counter statements to one another. If you're just hanging out watching a stream, the odds of sitting there REALLY monitoring every little thing in the same way that you'd focus on a run submission video are pretty slim, because you're probably participating in chat and multitasking (which is totally fine, btw), but it makes the argument hard to believe that the run was verified simply because a mod was there.
I honestly think that all runs, regardless of who it is, and if you were in chat or whatever, need to be watched and verified in submission order so as to not play favorites with whomever it is you just happen to be watching that day. If Mod A just happened to be in the chat, then Mod B needs to verify. It's the only fair way to do things across the board, and would prevent further arguments about "so and so had their run verified before me!"
Thoughts?
I think people need to stop being impatient. This happens for most speedrun games. There seem to be a lot of new runners that don't really understand all that is involved. Veteran runners that stream to large audiences or WR being streamed and approved instantly is a pretty normal thing in the general speedrun community. I don't think its favoritism, it's more of why watch a WR that mods just watched live and can verify it was done legit. This "Instant" verification only happens with WR for the most part. Everyone needs to just be patient and their run will be verified soon. If you have to wait a week or two it shouldn't be a big deal. This is all for fun at the end of the day.
I'll straight up admit that I've been kind of impatient about my run being verified but honestly just keep your impatience to yourself. Posting about it on the forums is only going to rile people up and that's not something we need. Your runs will be verified. You may have to wait. Other people's may get done before yours. That's life.
I'll say it again, if anyone's livelihood is dependent on their time being shown on SRC please DM me so I can accommodate your circumstances. Thank you and let me know if you have any questions!
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about MY runs. I haven't even felt confident enough to submit one just yet haha, I'm just trying to think of ways to help the community with efficiency etc, so as to PREVENT further issues. I definitely don't think the solution is for people to just "stay quiet," because, I mean... yeah this is all fun and games, but people are still passionate about it too. A forum exists to communicate with the community, both the good AND the bad in it. Also there's a small bit of irony in telling speedrunners to be patient, but I digress haha.
Also, regardless of if you think watching a run live and verifying it in the moment is a form of favoritism or not, it... Is. Because it's not just WR that it happens with. Nico quite literally said "For example i've done the same for Peralt, Nyiddle, ZGL," as a counter point to not doing it for just mods or WR. Which, not trying to throw shade at these runners or at Nico for that matter, just pointing out that, it's this kind of stuff that will LEAD to people's impatience.
Simple real world scenario: You're at the grocery store, and the cashier keeps waving on people behind you to check out in front of you, even though you've already waited in the line for a while now. Someone else comes up to you and just says "I mean it's just groceries, it's not a big deal, have patience," like come on, you're gonna be upset haha.
Also in regards to @Gulch2 saying "Veteran runners that stream to large audiences or WR being streamed and approved instantly is a pretty normal thing in the general speedrun community" Normal does not always mean "good" or "right." Kind of proves the point of favoritism.
Anyway, I was just trying to think of a way that would make everyone happy by treating all submissions equally.
My argument was in response to the fact that I had watched the runs live, not that I jumped to their runs beforehand.
Also your irl scenario doesn’t make sense, if you wanna talk analogies the runs get verified faster because we had already watched them, the groceries were already paid for, would be weird for people to pay for groceries twice no?
I can't believe this is STILL being talked about. There is no "fiasco" going on here. A mod team is allowed to do runs how they see fit. People need to understand that if a mod is watching a run live and then it's submitted, of course they will do that run quickly because it's easy to just spot check and approve since they already saw it.
Mods have I think 21 days? To verify a run, I highly doubt there is anything that old in the queue, and if there is then a faster run from someone has been approved and the older one not taken care of yet.
Learn some patience! With a game where the runs are over an hour, it takes time to get through them, I'm sure the team is doing the best they can, and people bitching about waiting isn't helping.
I can speak from personal experience that you can burn yourself out on this real quick. When I started modding in RE2R/3R, I went in hard to help keep the queue down, but I burned myself out to the point I had to stop. That, and dealing with people bitching about their runs and other matters, it made me not want to do it anymore. Pushing mods to verify faster is going to lead to burn out, and then people will drop out/just stop and then the queue will be even worse.
The problem is unless you are obsessively watching over the leaderboards you have no idea how many runs are being verified and there seems to be a misconception of how many are being verified.
At the same time it seems to be one person who really is being a pain while others are just curious.
If one submits a run it should be treated the same as the Ronco Rotisserie oven not watching paint dry.
@nicowithaC: "My argument was in response to the fact that I had watched the runs live, not that I jumped to their runs beforehand.
Also your irl scenario doesn’t make sense, if you wanna talk analogies the runs get verified faster because we had already watched them, the groceries were already paid for, would be weird for people to pay for groceries twice no?"
I mean, okay if you really want to argue semantics, then it'd be the same as ordering groceries/food online, going to the store/restaurant to pick it up, and then having to wait for employees to give it to you, while new people simply walk into the store/restaurant and buy/pickup their food from the same employees. This is definitely a real world scenario that does indeed happen (especially this past year). But again, I digress if that's the part you're going to take away from this.
@Jadusable2: "I can't believe this is STILL being talked about. There is no "fiasco" going on here. A mod team is allowed to do runs how they see fit. "
Sure, they absolutely can, just like if people are displeased with the process, they have every right to speak up and say something. But remember, this is a community, no? So people are going to have differing opinions.
I guess I'm a bit baffled by how quickly people jump to attack the moment someone speaks out against the status quo here, especially when, in all honesty, I tried to go about it as peacefully as possible. Like, I get it, ya'll hate that idea. Point taken haha. But maybe in the future, as opposed to hunkering down and getting defensive (or worse, taking a single thing said, and trying your hardest to disprove it, when ultimately the point was easily read), maybe like, chill a bit. There was absolutely zero anger or malice in any of my posts, but people certainly react like there was.
There is no fiasco. It's just a backlog of watching videos to get your name with a number next to it. If people seem annoyed its because they understand the process of being mods for game that is relatively new, part of a popular series , long, and are tired of explaining themselves.
@LeonShredfield You say people, what people exactly are displeased? A few people complaining on the forms don't represent a whole community. At the end of the day, you can be displeased because your run didn't get verified in what you see is a timely manner, but mods have 21 days I believe it is to verify a run, and they will get to it when they get to it. Instead of spending all of this energy bitching on the forms, maybe put it into improving your run for next time?
Anyway, I'm done wasting my energy on threads like these, I always just end up repeating myself anyways since it's the same lame arguments over and over. People who are complaining are just displeased that someone else got verified before them. Submitted before, at the same time, or after you, doesn't matter, mods are going to verify as they see fit, or have time for. If your run is 3 hours long, and a mod doesn't have time for it, of course they are going to look at a shorter one they can finish.
Honestly it makes me feel better knowing that if a mod saw a run live, they'll jump on it and approve it quickly. Why? It doesn't waste another mods time watching the run again. That mod can then spend their time watching another run instead. It's efficiency, plain and simple.
There is no "fiasco". This thread is dumb.
@Jadusable2 Your response just kind of proves you didn't actually read what I said. This wasn't about my runs, I made that clear. Literally said that. Also, tried (numerous times) to be as polite as possible and re-iterate that this wasn't "bitching" (as you've so deemed it), while also pointing out that users, such as yourself, are very quick to jump towards hostility.
Also saying "what people exactly are displeased?" is a strawman argument. Not to mention following it up with "I'm done wasting my energy on threads like these" just undoes your entire statement. "Threads." As in plural. As in more than one person has supposedly said something, while you make statements like "what people exactly?" So which is it? Is nobody displeased or have you just said yourself that you respond to this stuff multiple times?
Again, this thread wasn't SUPPOSED to be hostile, but man, you try to have a normal civil discussion and people absolutely lose their minds here.
It's just demoralizing at the end of the day to see threads like that. Take it from me knowing most of the mods pretty well, but we're not trying to attack you or be hostile.
"Again, this thread wasn't SUPPOSED to be hostile, but man, you try to have a normal civil discussion and people absolutely lose their minds here." As a friend, I'm going to tell you if multiple people tell you you're sounding angry/hostile from multiple posts, then I have bad news for you. However, it's a teachable moment as you're not DM-ing/personally attacking some of the mods like others have been, and you're trying to do your best to challenge not only yourself and give back to the community, adding something to what a fun run is Village. All it is for you is probably just paraphrasing. Maybe take that extra sentence or one-time skim-through of your paragraph to make sure what is said is being interpreted properly. I used to have this problem too, but I would just read what I wrote aloud and find mistakes that way.
Just be a bit understanding and note that we're human too - we've thought about the process, we've discussed it, and we're always looking to improve too. We all love this game, we all love the community, so let's use these points to not generate hate but to understand the other side and be more communicating and understanding, both sides.
Just stopping in to say, thanks Mods for doing what you are doing. Folks that have never been a moderator of a game with a super high volume of submissions in such a short time will never really comprehend what it is that you have going on. First come fist serve always sounds great, but it doesn't work with the way this website is designed. There are so many flaws with the verification queue. To name a few, you can't sort the queue, there is no easy way to see or know if another moderator is working on a specific run, if any runner makes ANY edits to an existing run (like changing the description for the run and nothing else) it pops back into the queue and looks like a new run, and it's easy for runs that were submitted first to get pushed behind runs that were submitted later even to the point of being unseeable if enough come through because these mods can only see 50 runs total at any given time.
Everyone needs to submit their runs, pretend that they've completely forgotten they do so and then get excited when they eventually get the notification cause these moderators are doing the best they can with the tools they are given. This game has plenty of mods who are doing fine work, the vocal few of you having issues with how things are going just need be patient.
