Hello there, I've tried a Knife only in MADHOUSE. Playing the rules of Speedrun.com, it seems to be impossible to get through Marguerite's F¤kin bugs in the Hole :D
Anyone managed to get through them witjout using guns or bonus items ?? Personnaly I managed to get there with the Damage Coin and Defence coin (7+8 antiques Coins) + 1 steroids + 5 health (medium) + 1 Health (Strong) and it wasn't enough....
I've seen Quizzle playthrough and he did used a gun at that point.
Beat the game as fast as possible using only standard melee weapons (The axe during the early Mia fights, and the knife for the rest of the game).
NOTE: The game will force you to grab the Albert-01R gun and shoot Eveline during the final fight so that won't count as using a fireweapon (think of it as a final QTE).
Timed via in-game time.
New Game ONLY! Pre-order item: Supply box is NOT allowed. Defence items: Defence Coin & Essence of Defence are also NOT allowed
Single Segment ONLY Loading a game is NOT allowed. Using "Retry" IS allowed.
I think this will need to be visited by staff and other members of the community to see if this is do-able. A rule adjustment (for Madhouse) may be necessary if it's found to be impossible. Anyone want to do some tests?
I've tried during some hours today: This is my last live-test where I have more health
(Start at 1:44'20")
Note: the first hive (at 1:31'00") took me a lot of health too :(
Quizzles run got rejected since he started the game and used the defense items and supply box, I didn't even get to the part of marg hole before rejecting the run. If he did well, even more reason.
It still stands for madhouse currently, no pre order bonus, no NG+ items; im 99% sure the hole is do-able knife only, sure, its not easy and it probably takes a lot of effort to find enough healing items to make it through; but theres a strategy for everything.
I'm willing to discuss it with the other mods though if this is something that really gets enough attention to be visited, until then I may go through madhouse myself and see if I can't do it.
I've tried without guns and playing the rules.
I have absolutely not enough heal for the hole part. I've tried a strategy on my own: Using the ladder when Marg throw bees at me, in some cases, the bees stay at the ladder and I can hit them with the knife safely (but it's not always working)
Until now, I haven't seen anyone going though that part using only a knife :( If you have a good strat or a video, feel free to share :D
I've heard that the swarm bugs can't finish you off no matter how much damage they do as long as you keep swinging your knife.
Can anyone confirm that? That might be the trick to the marg fight knife only?
I've thought about this too. I would love to try a Madhouse knife only run but it doesn't seem possible for this one fight.
They always kill me in the video.
On Easy mode you can basically swing your knife without using your brains, in MADHOUSE you die.
Hey, so I'm interested in figuring out the mechanics for this.
I checked all the Easy mode runs, and it looks like one of two things happen:
- Kill the big insects
- Wait 5 minutes exactly and Marguerite will just die
but something interesting I noticed was in Snakesoldier1980's run on the leaderboard, he waited 3 minutes before Marguerite fell. One thing I noticed was, he went into the fight with only one herb.
uhTrance confirmed that there was Difficulty Adjustment in this game on Easy (don't know about Madhouse, but if so, Madhouse would be locked at the highest unless Capcom releases another difficulty level) so it could be possible that running into the fight with no heals lessens the length.
@Caelm_Bleidd - I'm going to be frank, and I apologize - I don't understand French and I (personally) don't have time to watch multiple unsuccessful attempts of Knife Only on Madhouse. In the interest of deducing what we know and don't know, what specifically did you try to look for in each attempt?
There is definitely difficulty adjustment; Trance first did it and I tested it with bosses, on easy fair enough, but I don't know if its locked at a constant, im sure it lessens based on healing items, but also damage when entering the fight too. I found if you enter some fights on exceptionally low health the bosses are significantly easier to kill.
Ive never thought about if healing items in your inventory can potentially lower boss health, if it does then it seems the best way to go about the madhouse is to have very few or just one healing item in your inventory, and perhaps try to enter the fight on low health then heal up and it should pass a lot easier.
Remember, routing for good times and speedrunning is all about laborious testing; I'm talking strenuous hours of whittling away at even tiny things. Today alone I spent about 6 hours perfecting chainsaw jack alone. Youve got to go at it for a looong time. Theres a way of doing it, theres always a way, its just finding it.
Also when testing remember to reload, not retry if you die or kill an enemy or boss; I can confirm from my own testing that some of the boss fights (easy and madhouse, though madhouse I haven't tested as much) do change difficulty based on prior retries. AKA: If you kill a boss, and retry to do it again, that boss will be tougher; if you die, the boss will be easier. (Not true for all bosses though)
Well at that specific location (Marguerite's hole), I've just try to get through it, using reties when I die. In the first stream, I died many times. I spent 1+hour of unusscesuful attempts. For that very first try, I get to the conclusion that i didn't had enough healing so I just restarted from the start.
Here is exactly what I had During the fight: 【#1st try】 ►For the First Hive ( It consumes many healing pots) ● 5 Healing pots ● 1 Strong Healing pots ● 2 herbs
►For Marguerite ● 4 Healing Pots ● 1 Steroid ● 1 Defence Coin (7 Antiques coins needed)
【#2nd try】 ►For the First Hive ● 5 Healing pots ● 1 Strong Healing pots ● 2 herbs
►For Marguerite ● 5 Healing Pots ● 1 Strong Healing Pots ● 1 Defence Coin (Needs 7 Antiques Coins) ● 1 Damage Coin (Needs 8 Antiques Coins)
In all these 2 configuration, I can resist 3 minutes. In the hole I cannot find a decent spot where I can avoid damage. I find a strat but it's not always reliable. When Marg throw bees at you, go use the ladder, you will fall but the bees will stays at the ladder. While the bees are at the ladder, slice them with the knife (if yous top attacking, they'll go at you) and take your distances. I can be safe like that until Marg throw another Bees squad. However Ethan is vulnerable while he is falling + The strat is not 100% working. (When it works, I can be safe for 10 to 20 seconds) With more Healing pots, I would probably resist (if you just have to survive for 5 minutes) so here are my conclusions:
If we cannot find a better strat for the hole, maybe we can find a better strat for the hive we have to destroy for the spider statue. We need to have more luck with the looting system. Personnally I was totally unlucky, I always get handgun bullets in crate (even if I carry the gun and have 30+ bullets in my inventory ._. )
In my Easy speedrun (Knife only in 1:53'56"), Marguerite fell after exactly 5 minutes. And I can just spam the knife attacks without using healing pots. Still in the same run, I died once against the last boss. Using the retry, I managed to get through the final boss quicker (thanks to that difficulty adjsutement). I don't know if you have to die or if going to "Danger" mode is enough.
So, I finally found out a strat after spending about 3-4 hours on this damn part of the game. I hope this will help everyone in their runs.
I went in there after getting every single healing item and defense coin possible.
Even with this, I died multiple times... it was extremely aggrivating. HOWEVER! I started to notice something, after you kill off a certain about of the large bugs and smaller bugs, you can hide off in the corner and leave ONE of the large bugs alive. It will sting at you, but she will no longer spawn the swarms.
Just saying; it's now been proven possible! No gun needed, even if it is extremely difficult. Well, knife only madhouse "extremely difficult" is kind of the entire point
Oh, nice strat, I'll give it a try Nekhra!
BTW, how did you deal with the first hive You have to destroy ?
And did you find soime herbs in the crates ? If yes, did you carry handgun and bullets ?
On one play through I ran through with all weapons and all of that to get to the spot so I could grind that area over and over. That is the run that I found this strat on.
On my other playthrough, I went through all of it on Madhouse with knife only. I got hurt during my first jack encounter and left myself at low health hoping it would enable more health items to drop. I did indeed get quite a few meds from crates, any of them I got I put in the crate to save for later to try and see if it would give me more... it did seem to do so. Though, it could have just been RNG on my side.
Also, I have been trying out this strat a few more times. I think it may be the back and forth motion that is honestly doing it. It may bug out her animations? I have seen her flailing about awkwardly a lot every time I have done this run through, however.. I have made it through the pit part using only 4 meds and 1 steroid, it works even better if you stand up in the corner and bait the bugs in to attack, then crouch. You then take no damage from blocking and they completely miss you.
Edit: Also, I am not a fan of the defense coin... it seemingly does pretty much nothing so I just skipped it on my knife only run on Madhouse.
Thanks to your strat I could beat the game in a MADHOUSE/Knife Only run (streaming) :D
Final time = 5h30 or + xD
I'll send the link to Speedrun.com ASAP
There is one important thing to mention. I made some etst about the looting system. it appears that having a lot of healing items in your Inventory reduces the chance to loot herbs or pots from crates. Knowing that, I just store all my herbs and pots in the Item Box during the Exploration to increase the chance to loot healing items and it worked pretty well !
Having a lot of ammo in the others hands didn't seemed to change anything concerning the chances to loot more ammo or more Healing items.
Indeed, that healing thing is something I noticed while running my knife runs before. WHenever I was stupid low and didn't have any items on me, I would usually get an herb or med in one of the rando boxes. I am 85% sure there is a variable at play somewhere in there.
Also, CONGRATS ON THE RUN! Did you have any other spot that was hard for you?
Not really, I was really lucky during the run, the last 2 fat molded got glitched xD
One just disappeared, i'll try to reproduce the glitch to know if it is a reliable and easy strat.
For the Lucas Molded (Elevator), I used an explosive crate to kill them and it worked really well :D
