SRT 1.3 Yay or Nay?
6 years ago

Why not remove the magnum and the gl, and replace it with a plastic spoon, see how that does against nemmy :)

StevenMayte and uhTrance like this

@komakino

I've learnt to take the world a little less seriously. whether there is a magnum in the locker or a gl, doesn't have the same magnitude as saving world famine does it.

United Kingdom

Like Ste said, a reset 4 mins in is pretty much nothing really. There are many, many games with far more egregious reset points. Yeah, it is still annoying, but to bend to modifying the game itself with such a short reset point to me still feels excessive.

Dudley's dark souls example was also within the Magnum/GL example. In Dark Souls, at one point they used a weapon called the 'Black Knight Halberd'. This weapon had a certain rate of dropping, at random (not a 50/50 either), from a non-respawning enemy they'd fight several minutes into the run. If they didn't get it, they either had to reset or risk getting a much slower time. It is exactly the same as the Magnum/GL example, because you CAN still grab the GL in-game if it doesn't appear in the locker... it's just you risk a time loss, much like the example just given. They never allowed the use of cheat engine or similar tools to modify the drop rate of this weapon.

If I was an outsider to Dark Souls and the first thing I learned of their community was "yeah we use cheat engine to modify drop rates to bypass the BKH RNG", it wouldn't exactly give the best first impression, to be totally honest. I'm sure there would be plenty who would feel the same about RE3, too.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Darazanjoll likes this
Oregon, USA

Komakino you aren't the only person on this planet. Learn some respect son.

brunolloko and Democritus3 like this
Japan

I organized my opinion.

  1. If the use of this tool can be hidden from others, I think that this tool should not be released.

  2. I agree with the release if it is clear from anyone whether this tool is used or not.

However, after releasing, if it is possibly modified from others and the visualization may be impaired, I think that should not be released.

And even if protection against modification is adequate, I think that use on SPEEDRUN.COM should be prohibited absolutely.

  1. SPEEDRUN.COM has the category Magnum%.

If you do not want to reset by the appearance of Magnum, continue playing with Magnum%.

If you really want to put out a grenade launcher, keep on playing until you get out.

Resident Evil 3 was developed as such a game and I think that SPEEDRUN.COM should not officially accept that modifying its characteristics with third party tools.

wolfdnc and Liv like this
Michigan, USA

I am not a runner, past or present, just someone who is learning the game currently and hopes to become a runner. I am not voting. You're welcome to skip over this if you aren't interested in my opinion, however what I'd like to offer is the opinion that only someone brand new looking into the game and the community might offer, and I hope that's of some value you to some of you.

  1. I've read through all 7-odd pages of this. It's insanely toxic. I've read many other forum posts and guides and have sat in most of your chats, so I know that that doesn't completely pervade the community, but it's very discouraging nonetheless. This kind of contentious topic requires getting down and dirty, per se, but there has to be a civilized way to do it, or you will scare away new people such as myself.

  2. As someone learning the game, tools such as SRT which show me my health and ammo are useful until I get off my feet and memorize damage values and whathaveyou. A tool which would allow me to choose GL or Magnum for long practice sessions of one of the two independent routes would also be useful until mastery of both routes is achieved.

  3. Any% is the core of all speedrunning games. But if the GL route is currently the faster of the two, there's little to incentivize current runners to run the magnum route or new runners to learn the magnum route. This is different from Arrange or Nemesis%, which have their own value and enjoyment factor, in part because they are simply completely different. Magnum% as a category doesn't currently enjoy that same luxury. As it stands now, the magnum route (or Magnum%) is viewed as a throwaway by most people I'm reading and most people I've seen run. Keep in mind, even on your own leaderboards it is not placed front and center as one of the two main categories of an any% run, which is indicative of the general opinion about it. If you really see value in it and wish to maintain the sanctity of the game, than an important issue of this speedrunning community needs to be addressing ways to incentivzing the magnum route/magnum%, even though it is currently an inferior speed category. The SM64 speedrun community has 16 and 70 star categories which, at their core, are merely antiquated any% categories, and thus also inferior speed categories. Obviously there's a huge difference in that an SM64 run doesn't force you into a certain category with RNG the way RE3 does, but the more important point is that the speedrunning community has brought enough interest and further development into those categories so that they are not eclipsed by faster ones. Something of a similar nature would be very useful for RE3 and would help mitigate contentious discussions such as this one.

That's it, that's all I feel comfortable saying. I'm going back to learning this great game. Thanks for those of you that read.

brunolloko and Liv like this
United Kingdom

Unfortunately, the only civilized way such a thing could be handled is probably through something like a purely numerical vote. People get heated because naturally it's something a lot of people care about. Honestly, I've seen worse in many, many communities on this site. A lot of the other communities don't get as much "negative press" as RE because they hide stuff like this in their private discords.

Though I personally believe some things are just not fitting for numerical votes, many communities don't operate under a vote system for large changes because that sort of system ignores pretty much all reasoning. A lot of communities simply don't do this either because of this.

The problem, I believe, with the reasoning of "it's just a reset point" or "it wastes no time it's just a reset point" is that from the perspective of an extremely optimized run... bad puzzles ARE too a reset point. Yes, people can still PB with the worst RNG possible... but there will come a point where, from a WR or highly optimized run standpoint, it simply will not be possible. A bad code would always be a reset.

Point being, if this is allowed under the "this affects no gameplay, it's just a random element un-related to the player or run", then there could be a point in the future where all other bits of RNG are discussed / asked to be ruled out with the same reasoning possibly.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
the_dude2618 and RebeccaRE like this
Japan

From the opinion of people agreeing to introduce this tool, I think that there is a negative impression on Magnum%.

Certainly, because the route is different, it may be troublesome to remember it. However, Magnum% is a strategic game even compared to ANY%, I think that it is very interesting.

Basically, when Magnum comes out, if it is possible to update the record, I will decide to continue Magnum% as it is without resetting.

And if you improve the record with Magnum%, I think that it reflects direct improvement of ANY% record.

Even though it seems that only the magnum will come out, the grenade launcher surely comes out. When I ran ANY% at that time, I think that Magnum% which continues on a daily basis contributes not a little to the improvement of the record.

brunolloko and joshtakovich like this
United States

komakino: Everyone is aware of your opinion and your posts don't contain any new information and are just insulting other users. The only way we have to prevent someone from posting here at the moment is by banning sitewide, so if you continue posting stupid crap that everyone is tired of reading I'm not at all against handling it like that. Last warning.

Beckski93, RebeccaRE and 3 others like this
California, USA

You guys need to stop posting essays, no one readin' that shit. OpieOP

Anyway, if you need to practice: make a damn save.

Magnum route isn't that much slower than GL route. The only real reason you don't want magnum is no possibility of one cycle worm. If you don't get the GL in the RPD, you can still get it later on in the game. Magnum route shouldn't even be a category. It's mere existence is due to the whining of runners. carciSink

Edited by the author 6 years ago
StevenMayte and Roo like this
England

" I understand my existence is considerably inconvenient for you "

It's not just him, mate. If you could kindly now fuck up we'd all be grateful.

@FurryWulfz " Point being, if this is allowed under the "this affects no gameplay, it's just a random element un-related to the player or run", then there could be a point in the future where all other bits of RNG are discussed / asked to be ruled out with the same reasoning possibly. "

This sums it up perfectly for me.

South Carolina, USA

If it was an exploit found within the game to change what was in the locker, yes. But you are modding the game so big NOPE from me. You can use it to practice, but the run shouldn't count. Part of speedrunning is executing perfectly and hoping the planets align. If you allow this RNG to be modded, might as well allow them all to be modded.

Ceará, Brazil

NG+ sounds like a good idea

Ontario, Canada

I thought I would re register here to make one post, simply to apologize to all those who got a little heated throughout this debate and to any who are offended by this idea of mine.

Obviously I have to take some of the accountability for this. Overall I think it is great that a topic came out and the community got to have some opinion on the matter opposed to me just opening Pandora's shit box and releasing it, I myself saw this as a gentle improvement on old ways of doing things and could act as a compliment to the already established categories, as I myself think manipulating all random game elements is simply going to far. It was nice hearing from those who were for it and those who brought some good perspective to the table on why this isn't such a great idea, I have always been one who has enjoyed creating tools, mods and all sorts of stuff for others enjoyment and I simply like to make people happy and that's where all this truly stems from. This thread has allowed me to gauge that a lot of people feel strongly about this and some tricks are better kept to myself. - cheers

RebeccaRE, keny and 3 others like this
Japan

@Dchaps

As a result, I am sorry for denying this tool you developed.

I think that the usefulness is high as the other person says, but since I feel that it is difficult to handle it has become such a position.

I like the tools you develop, I think your existence is very valuable.

Well, I hope that you will develop great tools in the future.