Favorable RNG %
2 years ago
Argentina

Hello. Now that the rebirth patch has been approved, do you thing it's possible to add this as a new category in category extensions? what do you think

While this is a good idea on paper, it could make a category extension instantly more popular than the main categories. The main reason why a lot of people dont run this is because of bad luck in these events. People will go the way of least resistance by default most of the time. This means most runners new or old even though its an extension will say F* This I am not getting aquacured 5 times in a row again and will instantly start playing just this. This will also probably be the fastest run on the boards which will make it more attractive for the "fastest time". This is a huge difference to glitches since glitches have to be executed but this is just an option.

I find this extremely dangerous because it could spark debates among runners and make the main categories unattractive. If there are tons of submissions there it wouldnt take long for the question to come up: "So now that favorable RNG % is so popular, why dont we make it a main category" ?

I dont think its a good idea mid or long term.

Jakeeenator, Xenochrome and 5 others like this
Mexico

You could say the same thing abou the GL tool, lol. Category extentions are made for stuff like this.

AstralMagnet likes this
England

Sure it could be dangerous but the option also detracts away from the original games design, so I do not see why it could ever become more than an extension. My reasoning is purely that most main categories to some extent feature the original game unadulterated.

OG RE3 is largely loved by a lot of runners as much as it is hated. I for one am not so interested in running a perfect version of the RNG. Yet, I think if some runners want that then it could be good for them. Yes those times would be largely the fastest when it comes down to it and sure human nature to take the easy road comes into it. But there by nature speedrunners love a challenge meaning the non-fav-RNG would likely remain just as popular.

MaterialBurst likes this

@MaterialBurst This is not the same thing and you know it. The GL tool argument is not equal to changing ALL puzzle and enemy Rng and just leave the one cycle worm rng as one of the few major time losses. Part of the magic of this game is exactly that. The option in the patch is there, why exactly do we need a leaderboard for that? Just run and see what your time would be without all those rng factors. By creating a leaderboard for that with probably one of the fastest runs besides NG+ you would create competition to the main categories and that is obvious and will happen if we allow that. A lot of runners would not see this "extension" category as a "fun" category. The GL tool is just a convenience to even be able to start the game and I know how it is to reset the game for 5 hours straight on the RPD. But for me this is going too far.

Jakeeenator likes this
Argentina

"If there are tons of submissions there it wouldn't take long for the question to come up: "So now that favorable RNG % is so popular, why dont we make it a main category" ?

I talked about this with some runners and some of them said that it would be a boring category. And I agree with that at some point, because the gambling part this game has, is one of it's big hooks. But still, if we get to that point, if the mods don't let that happen, no problem with that.

Btw, I can't see the problem with it being more popular than any%. If a new category attracts new runners and keep the old ones into the game, it can't be bad. Why not accept it, if that's what the runners want?

"why exactly do we need a leaderboard for that?" That why CE exists, I guess.

Edited by the author 2 years ago

So making the game something completely different and also making it the main category is completely fine with you @re_duke? Really? Well I have a better idea then, why dont we have a skip to final nemmy % category? Or better, a skip to the credits category? That would be even faster and just save you the trouble running through the game. Who ever does the menu faster wins : ). Load some patch, name it skip to credits option and make a CE category out of it. This is going the wrong way, making the game more accessible to people with the patch was a good idea. But breaking the game completely and making it "official" is a bad idea.

United States

How is it breaking the game by adding a fun CE extension for people to play and try out? This patch was officially voted in and just so happens to have an interesting mode that just gives runners something new to try. There are plenty of games out there with CE that are away from the main board. I guarantee it more than likely wouldn't be more popular than any%. I do not see a problem with adding this category for a bit of fun. This is the problem with a lot of RE runners and personalities and I'm not afraid to say it. You're purists, plain and simple. You want the game to be as vanilla as possible and I get it, but this is ridiculous. This game is 20 years old and breathing new life into a potentially fun category sounds dope. If you don't want to see or run "Favorable RNG" then don't. Simple as that. One person's opinion does not speak for the entire community.

Also, I'm saying this without any sort of anger or slight towards anyone. I just can't stand the purist mentality. Make it CE, let people play it and have fun, that's it. If it becomes more popular than any% then so be it. At least the game and the board is alive.

Jadusable2 and giaNco like this
Argentina

"So making the game something completely different and also making it the main category is completely fine with you @re_duke? Really?"

Wait wait.. no. Maybe I express myself wrong. I don't want to replace anything. Just to have it as a new category But I think the categories aren't popular by themselves, they are popular because the runners choose to run them. Again; if the runners prefer it, what's the problem with that? Still don't understand why are you so scared of it.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Argentina

Close the maxi thread, the category will be done today, this generates meaningless discussions haha

17edwins17 likes this

Oh really beto? Nice! Ok then it seems there is no point into discussing, if there a small majority that decides regardless. I brought valid arguments why this shouldn't be a category.

Favorable rng is actually a great tool to run the game without having to worry about the rng and improve on the game.

But by creating a category we are rewarding "the easy way". Nobody is "afraid" of it. I couldn't care less about it because its of no interest to me. This is still a discussion forum after all. If there are no discussions to be had then by all means make a Beto and Re_duke decide everything and that is also fine. Just say it as it is and dont call out for a discussion.

Btw for the record, the majority of the people voted against the patch to be on the same categories, they either voted for it not be on the same or not at all. I don't know it seems to me that you guys only want to have others congratulate you on apparently pre-made decisions instead of going into a discussion.

giaNco likes this
Mexico

It is just another way to play this game imo. Also, I hope I did not offend anyone with that comparison, If I did then I apologize. I have supported both the GL tool and the rebirth patch since day 1 even tho I did not have the right to vote cuz I havent submitted any runs for this game as of yet. I doubt that anyone serious about running this game would like to replace any% with something like this. Though, I can see why some people would run it over any% as their main category.

I already heard the opinion of 2 top runners about something like this and they were ok to at least try it out from time to time so I dont see the problem. The way I see "Favorable RNG" its just a category where you can "limit test" the most favorable run you can possibly get. I would personally run this category when I feel like all my segments are good enough to guarantee what I would consider to be a good time.

Argentina

The vote was made to see if he was in a separate or normal category, and he won by a lot to maintain a category, it would not make sense to put himself in a separate category now when he did not win the vote

United States

I personally agree with @Holysoul . I am not trying to be a purist in any way when I say this as I support the patch itself and GL tool. But the favorable RNG imo would change way to much of the game and "potentially" could take away/become more popular than Any%. Also I'm not sure how many people would find it fun to watch a run if the RNG was always the same. But I guess that's all down to personal opinion.

That being said, if the community voted for it to be a category then that's what it is. I wouldn't complain or anything. I've always been a fan of Any% cause the RNG makes the gameplay interesting and keeps you on your toes.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Ecuador

It is not to judge or belittle the opinion of any runner. But you just can't "debate" about X topic without the drama coming out about what's right or wrong, at least in the Re3 community.

Currently Re3 CE is very neglected, you see very few runners playing Jill's Diary, All Bosses etc and I would say that almost no one currently plays them if you look at the recent submits that there are. The only category that is slightly saved from the CE is the Magnum Route and even so I dare say that there are no more than 10 active runners currently.

That is why I think that since the patch was approved, taking advantage of the favorable RNG that it has to create a new category does not seem bad to me. It's always fun to have an extra game mode.

I must clarify that I'm only talking about CE. As they said before, I do not think that favorable RNG will become more popular than Any% or any of the main categories seems impossible to me.

And speaking of the favorable RNG it is not as easy as it sounds. If you think about it, the only thing that ensures you is the RNG of the Puzzles and some Spawns of enemies. But the Turbos are still maintained even when you play with favorable RNG you can have several resets only for Turbos in Basement - Book - Batery - Pharmacy - or for Poison - Clock Tower Fight because the Nemmy is still very RNG like the Grave Digger - Wolf Line - You B*stard the same. So I don't see it as easy as it sounds.

Anyway, this category attracts my attention.

SonBeto likes this
California, USA

I don't think there is any real evidence that it will become more popular than Any% - not that it couldn't happen, but the fact that Light Mode (which should be on the main board btw) and NG+ are both dead suggests it probably won't. I say if anyone wants to play it, then let them play it. If they don't, then great, they can play their category of choice. Personally, I would do a couple runs just to try it, but being +30 and still having chance to PB keeps me coming back to Any% - what others players do or prefer is their business.

Mercynm likes this
United States

I agree with the patch being accepted now, and it's already a feature of it, why not make it a category. I could see the appeal of it and why some would like to run it or have interest in it. I honestly don't see it surpassing any% or becoming a main category tbh but I can understand the potential worry or why the thought of it as a category would turn someone off. I also agree with Holysoul how it seems that "discussion" does get shot down and the decision is already premade and you'll be damned if you go against it.

Respectfully Levi I'm going to have to disagree with you or rather your mentality of calling everyone a "purists" if you have something against the idea of something like this. One person's opinion doesn't speak for the community and neither does yours. Just make it CE and let everyone have fun? Then why are we even discussing? Why even ask? People are very opinionated, yes, and that is your opinion but I am not shitting on you for it. If we assume every has that same "Just let people have fun" mentality then nothing needs to be asked. I know at the end of the day none if this actually matters but I don't like the idea of fake discussion. If that's the case lets go crazy with it. Lets bloat up CE with every meme category we can think of. Let people have fun no need to ask.

Croneus likes this
Finland

When there was discussion if GLT should be allowed or not, the main argument against it was that it would open a door to manipulate all the other RNG aspects of the game (even though GLT is whole different thing from every other RNG in the game, GLT just lets you choose which category to run instead the game forcing you to run one or the other), which people back then didnt seem to like at all, now over a year after we are talking exactly about that, to manipulate all the RNG and make it to separated category.

There was a forum post a while ago about a program which you can use to manipulate RNG and people didnt want it to be released to public because it would make cheating easier, also it would make it very difficult to proof if someone was using the tool in their run or not.

I dont personally really care if this was made separated category, i wont probably ever attempt to run it because it would make the game less interesting and booring in a way, but i think it should be made obvious if RNG was manipulated in the game, so it would make cheating harder, like some sort of watermark in the game if RNG was manipulated (dont know if thats even possible but just an example), so people cant use it while attempting to run any% category.

Argentina

@Holysoul i got u point homie. But the main category and the most popular always gonna be Any%. No way adding this CE suddenly the game turns into a "oh, lets play ez mode then" (spoiler is not so easy). Ofc im not saying i'll not be a dope category. But Any% has history in their name. It can't change because a new CE its added. What's make this game great is the diversity of possibilities, the RNG, the memes, the nerves, the chokes, the runners. A new category will not change that. Thats is what i think. And guys, plz be respectful. We have a forum here for discussions and for talk stuff. Dont act like childrens fighting for nothing. We're all in the same boat/community

SonBeto likes this
Argentina

@Ezkimmo That's funny, because at that time I was against tools that fix the rng precisely because I thought that people could use that to cheat, or make it easier. And when I was given the patch to test, at the beginning I wasn't a big fan of that option, for the same reason. But I changed my opinion. The fixed rng of Rebirth, when it's on, has sound cues in a couple rooms (basement/before basement/hydrant before rpd is broken) so you can tell if it's being used or not. I don't know if that's enough to stop cheaters, but the thing is that it's rare to see people cheating in this game, afaik there is only 1 runner who has rejected runs because of cheating.

MaterialBurst likes this