Rabi-Ribi Forum  /  Leaderboard Categories (Locked)
  HakuaHakua
(edited: )

Recently, Rabi-Ribi has received some updates that make the definitions of some categories questionable. Even without some of the updates, some of the categories were still questionable. This post is going to address this topic of categories and offer arguments from multiple points of view. We need to talk about this as a community sooner rather than later, and also discuss any future changes in categories.

Some background information: Categories were previously established, but now they're a bit shaky. Recently, the game was updated (on Easter) and added a brand new collectable: Easter Eggs. Since this is a new collectable, the question is whether or not this should be included in the definitions of 100% and Low%.

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100%
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There are two main arguments when considering 100%:
1) 100% should be defined by the percentage counters displayed by the speedrun stats tracker on the top of the screen.
2) 100% is arbitrary and should generally include all possible collectables.

The case for argument 1:
A) This game is continuously receiving updates, so we should not cater to new collectables being added every update. 100% should be cut and dry: only include what the game counts in its percentage counter: map completion and items completion.
B) Other games use their in-game percentage counters to track 100% (think Kirby or Metroid), so we should follow suit and do the same. This is especially evident on the save files as seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/DJs65B6.png

c) Easter Eggs and potential future updates should not be included as they are not counted by these counters.

The case for argument 2:
A) There are many games that do no have a percentage counter, and 100% is defined as all possible collectables. Following suit, we should try to collect everything possible, which means collecting Easter Eggs (and possibly future updated collectables).
B) When you look at the map, Easter Eggs are included as a collectable, and they are in static locations. As such, we should include Easter Eggs even if you don't want to use "arbitrary category" as the argument. Since Easter Eggs appear on the map, they are not arbitrary collectables. You can see that here:

http://i.imgur.com/UNsy3Y7.png

C) Future updates that add collectables don't need to be considered at this time because they may or may not adhere to some of these previous guidelines.

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Low%
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There are two main arguments when considering 0%:
1) Low% should be defined by the percentage counter displayed by the speedrun stats tracker on the top of the screen.¤
2) Low% is arbitrary and should generally attempt to collect the least amount of collectables possible.

¤Regarding the map completion tracker, given the restriction on movement options, map completion is generally N/A for Low%.

The case for argument 1:
A) Similar to other games, we should only consider the in game percentage tracker of 0% item completion. As this game is a Metroidvania, this is a simple comparison to make. Beating the game with 0% items is possible, so that is what we should use. You can see that here:

http://i.imgur.com/Ne4dDk2.png

😎 Eggs are not tracked by the item completion counter. They are tracked by the map, but they generally do not serve much purpose and can be treated as money as very few will even be collected. If these should be counted, then so should the map.
C) This draws a simple comparison to the Steam Leaderboards, which does not include eggs, especially as they are updated content.

The case for argument 2:
A) Since Low% is basically "collect the least amount possible", we should honor it as an arbitrary category and not collect eggs, especially since eggs ARE tracked as seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/ljxSzuS.png

😎 Arguments defending collecting eggs as some are "hard to avoid" is invalid because there are some main items that are hard to avoid.
C) Since collecting 0 eggs is possible, it should be a valid part of the definition of Low%, much like they should be a valid part of 100%.
D) Each egg gives you 1500 EN, which gives you an unfair advantage and allows you to abuse purchasing Cocoa Bombs and speed up boss fights.

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All Bosses / Post Game / All Town Members Categories
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There are many ways to look at this category. This category started off as "All Bosses" because the community believed that Keke Bunny was required to reach Irisu and that skipping bosses such as Fake Rita was impossible. Now that we know that some bosses such as Keke bunny and Fake Rita can be skipped, we can no longer easily call this "All Bosses".

All Bosses
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The idea behind this category is to show off strats for all the boss fights, which means that bosses such as Keke Bunny, Shadow Rita, and Shadow Pandora should all be included. Whether or not the Ex-Bosses should be included is still in the air. Most people argue "no" because they are post-post-game content and are just harder versions of existing bosses.

Post Game
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The idea behind this because this is what the Steam Leaderboards track. As such, the only requirement of this category is to defeat Irisu as quickly as possible. Consequently, this means that Keke Bunny, Shadow Rita, and Shadow Pandora will all be skipped.

All Town Members (ATM)
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The idea behind this category is using the in-game Town menu as the basis for this category as seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/rMqzEvn.png

We should attempt to just fill out this menu. This means that Keke Bunny should be fought, but Shadow Rita and Shadow Pandora can be skipped.

 
  HakuaHakua

In case this was a TL;DR, the basic questions are:

1) Should 100% include collecting Easter Eggs despite not being accounted for by the game's percentage tracker?

2) Should Low% avoid collecting Easter Eggs despite not being accounted for by the game's percentage tracker?

3) Should the "Defeat Irisu" category just strive to defeat Irisu ASAP, fill out the Town Members menu, or include fighting all bosses including optional ones? (Post Game? All Town Members? All Bosses?)

 
  RosaelRosael

100% allows eggs
0% bans eggs
ATM ALL THE WAY

 
  PinkPajamasPinkPajamas

I had a poll for ATM versus the other options and ATM won out so that's pretty much been decided on.
I don't have any opinions on the eggs though since I don't plan on running low% or 100%.

 
  SarcasmicSarcasmic

1) When it comes to 100%, it usually seems to be, IF the game has a percentage counter, then you use that to determine "full completion". So 100% on the save file should be the decision there imo.

2) Low % is a little grayer for me. I'm leaning towards not collecting them, cause of the definition difference. Low % to me was always, beating the game with the minimum required items/stats/gear/etc to actually defeat the final boss. ALttP can't beat Ganon without a way to light the torches in the boss room for example. Rabi-Ribi is entirely able to be completed with just Ribbon and blue magic (and the amulets), so I feel that's how this category should be defined.

On the other hand we already can get Cocoa Bombs, food, or town member buffs in 0%, and eggs are essentially just extra currency. As long as the egg magic isn't collected a couple eggs along the way wouldn't really differ from what's already done.

I don't know that I have a cut decision either way for this one. Whatever the game counts as 0% is most likely the easiest option to verify, so I'd prolly put vote there.

3) All Town Members for the "beat Irisu" category, hands down. It's easily tracked, just pull up the member list at the end, and proof done. Requiring Fake Rita/Pandora seems extraneously arbitrary, and leaving an empty portrait slot for Keke Bunny at the end of the final fight equally so.

 
  CopilotCopilot

I feel like with the 100%, it'd be best just to stick without the Easter Eggs. It'd be hard to keep up with constantly having to change the ruling every time a new update comes out and changes something, and then we have to have this whole discussion again and again. Plus, if any DLC add anything into this mix, especially on All Bosses, where I believe they have DLC exclusive bosses planned, you can start to get into a gray area where people aren't okay with needing to purchase something extra to run the game. Now, DLC and free updates aren't the same, but some amount of consistency should still apply.

As far as Low%, that one's tough. I want to say that Low% is a little more arbitrary, and I want to try and think of the category here as "beat the game with as few resources as possible." When worded like that, it becomes apparently that not you should avoid the Easter Eggs, especially since they apparently give you some actual advantage. Because of that, it doesn't seem to quite be in the right spirit of Low%.

Everything else, well, I just started the game, so I don't really know what most of what y'all are talking about is. But hey, I wish y'all luck on that. I'll come back once I've actually finished the game, see y'all in a couple days probably.

 
  MikanMikan

I like 100% not requiring eggs.
I like ATM.

 
  CupNoodleCupNoodle

I like not requiring eggs in 100% since they're not on the counter, but I don't have much experience in that category, so I'll leave the debate to the people who know it more than me.

Low%, it's tough to say, but I think map completion definitely shouldn't be considered since it would limit the possible routes and I think a great part of this game (and this genre in general) is the exploration involved in routing. The eggs I can see both sides of the argument, but I kind of lean towards the no egg rule.

I also like ATM.

 
  CosmoingCosmoing

For Low%, I think it would be better to ban eggs. Low% always has been a "get the least possible items" category and I feel it would be more fun and challenging this way.

100%, not quite sure yet. I'm leaning towards not required, so that if more collectibles are added later on then we don't have to change the category and such, but I can understand why people would want to have the eggs be required.

I like ATM, but I still feel that All Bosses might be good too. And Post Game could also be good. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 
  HakuaHakua

The general consensus seems to prefer banning eggs in 0% and having them optional in 100%. As such, I've updated the categories to reflect this. Not permanent, but it's a good place to start.

 
  HakuaHakua

I added Any% (Post Game) to the leaderboard as a miscellaneous category due to requests from the Japanese community. If it does turn out more popular, we can promote it to a main category, but I thought it would be best to leave it as miscellaneous for now.

Welcome, Japanese players ('ω' )و✧

 
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