Information regarding this leaderboard / game
7 years ago
Pennsylvania, USA

So there needs to be more information out there, it's really bare, only shows difficulties and timing method.

Star Fox 2 is an unofficial game, therefore it is under the impression that unofficial emulation is the standard for this game. That being said, "Reproduction cartridges" would technically be considered the "emulated" version of this game.

So, a few things needed so others can run the game how they see, as well as making leaderboard newer runner friendly as well.

  1. What is the standardized emulator used for this game?

  2. Are reproduction cartridges allowed for this game?

  3. Standardized rom?

All this info would need to be in the default rules list for this game.

My thoughts on each are as followed:

Standardized emulator -

Pick one and ensure all runs use this same one. Does it have to be accurate? Not really, but once again this game was only "released" through unofficial means, so a lightweight emulator w/ bad accuracy compared to a heavy emulator (bizhawk?) are some factors and things that need discussed. I always want accuracy when it comes to emulation, but this game is a unique case.

Reproduction cartridges -

I'm very console biased so I think they should be allowed, but from testing from me (and probably others), emulation will always be faster for this game since this game uses the FX chip. Not worth assuming until data can be crunched, but maybe a sub category of "console / emulator name" may be worth it if all else fails.

Rom -

Idk I don't know anything about this.

So yeah, we need to tidy up the way stuff is for this board just figure out what emulator works best for this game, also we'd need a way to link to the roms / emulators used once things are finalized. However, we can't link directly to rom sites for legal reasons, so a sorta middle man site would be needed.

None of my ideas are worth keeping if not wanted, that's why this thread was created, to discuss how to go about making leaderboard look better as well as officially standardize stuff for people wanting to join community.

HUGE NOTE: DO NOT link to any rom sites, nor are you to do the "site DOT com" route. I recommend avoiding linking to any site at all, or at very least post the links far away from this website (i.e use the discord yo)

Ontario, Canada

Alrighty, going to post my thoughts on this for whatever that's worth. :P

[small](NOTE: I've updated the info below after seeing Literal's posts. Didn't know that there was a new patch released in 2010 that contained some additional bug fixes and I didn't want this post to contain inaccurate info).[/small]

[big]Regarding ROMs[/big]

For everyone's general info, I'm going to post some information on the ROMs of this game that are floating out there and the patches that are available that everyone should be using (as they fix bugs, remove debug info, and translate the game to english).

First off, here's a very good source of general info and the history of Star Fox 2: http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0077

Anyway, there are basically 2 main leaked ROMs of this game, the "Early Alpha" and "Final Beta." For our purposes the Final Beta is the one we want. However, the unpatched Final Beta ROM also includes Japanese text and debug info / menus littered throughout, not to mention some gameplay bugs.

In 2004 a patch was released by Aeon Genesis which translates the text to English, removes the debug info, and fixes a few bugs (such as Corneria being unable to take damage) making the ROM look like a final release product. This patch is available here: http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=starfox2

In 2010 another set of 3 patches was released ManuLoewe which fixes a couple of text issues and fixes a little bug in the main menu. These patches are available here: http://manuloewe.de/kayeneng.htm

These patches (4 in total) can all be applied (beginning with the Aeon Genesis one), to one of the two main unpatched, untranslated debug ROMS:

Star Fox 2 (Beta TD) CRC: 1fb1cf76 MD5: de70567495c962b15574abf03a0785f4 SHA-1: 60f45d5ca95247294120080359639eb3a7e505c3 SHA-256: 6bbbacdf71026a6596e375f6bad08993368b3576ef360e77c7fc78d0510e1698

Star Fox 2 (Beta TD) (J) [o1] CRC: 1b3bc708 MD5: d078ec303bcd19fbd77d545e6b9617c3 SHA-1: 6669899a6c9c3bb71c41d90c36932ddfc1f4f208 SHA-256: 1d3607ba60504e988c53c9de46a2170ccdc655e921ae0575bfe20c2deb3e7025

However, since not everyone likes applying patches manually, a prepatched ROM can be found on the interwebz:

Star Fox 2 (Japan) (Proto) (Alt 1) [En+Hack by Aeon Genesis v1.0] [Fix by ManuLoewe] (Final Version) CRC: 1e61c986 MD5: cbaf1982688304cd97453032ccfd5cb5 SHA-1: 12de5ce6d07bb1f3b4eaa3652bd985e1504109d5 SHA-256: b86c6113be950337b5cf43c5105f8a442ba897da6fca1cf3af47420d33f76f54

¤¤¤ This ROM is the one that has been decided will be the standard ROM for speedrunning on by LiamPiper and LiteralRathalosPlate. ¤¤¤

For completeness, there is another prepatched ROM floating around out there which includes only the 2004 Aeon Genesis patch. This ROM is worth mentioning because it has been around the longest and is what was used on many reproduction carts (including my own) and by many people who played the game on emulators prior to ManuLoewe's patches being made available sometime in 2010.

Star Fox 2 (Japan) (Proto) (Alt 1) [En+Hack by Aeon Genesis v1.0] (Final Version) CRC: a797f974 MD5: e27fb54db09b3bc1cbb6d05b8f42ddbf SHA-1: e6a66a8e6c929f569c8d3d625a571d8790866b42 SHA-256: be4d3bd755ac6e5ac6061fa1c528f5ff5b1a1b539a44aadf4ee03168e1ff11f9

Ultimately, since ManuLoewe's patches do not include any speed changes (only text fixes and a menu bug fix), this shouldn't change anything for speedrunning, but it is NOT the standard ROM for speedrunning!

[big]Regarding Reproduction Carts[/big]

So, after doing a bunch of research on the history of Star Fox 2 and what versions of the game were leaked... the fact that there's only 1 main patch of the game out there that fixes it up and turns it into something that looks like a final release (and an extra set of 3 smaller patches by ManuLoewe's which only change text and don't affect any actual gameplay).... I'm actually quite a bit less worried about reproduction carts containing "bad" copies of the game. Assuming that the reproduction cart in question was made with a Super FX 2 chip anyway. They all should be, but I'm told apparently some are not... if that's the case, it would stand out like a sore thumb as the game would run ridiculously slow since the Super FX 2 chip has twice the clock speed of the original.

However, since not everyone with a reproduction cart has access to ROM dumping hardware and cannot verify what version of the game they actually have, it's just yet another reason probably to split up emulator vs console run submissions in my opinion.

The main reason to split up emulator vs console runs is that SNES emulators still do not do a great job mimicking the unique performance characteristics of the Super FX chip (Snes9x certainly doesn't, and I think the jury is still even out on whether BSNES/Higan does this).

So definitely seems like a good idea to tag run submissions with the name of the emulator used or whether they were done on the actual console (repro cart). If there's some concern about this, I dunno if it's possible to use tabs / subcategories to separate emulator runs vs console runs into two separate lists (make the emulator category the default one shown since that's the more popular one for sure) or if you think that's too much... ?

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy post!

United States

Me and liam have decided to use a new ROM that includes a fix that makes the game MUCH less laggy. I'm probably gonna get shot by the TOS here, but look for the rom on emuparadise that says "Star Fox 2 (Japan) (Proto) (Alt 1) [En+Hack by Aeon Genesis v1.0] [Fix by ManuLoewe] (Final Version)"

fling84 likes this
United States

And for the heck of it, I'm not mod but I'd say that it should be required to label whether you run on SNES or EMU

Ontario, Canada

So in the ROM name mentioned by Literal, I was curious what the "Fix by ManuLoewe" was and found the original patch files here: http://manuloewe.de/kayeneng.htm (at the bottom of the page).

This is a relatively newer patch (I didn't know it existed until just now!) so it's possible that not all reproduction carts will include it (mine doesn't).

In the download are 3 individual patches:

[quote]

  1. DEBRIEFING FIX (applies to: "debug" & "final" versions)

agtp_starfox2v1.0_debriefing_by_manuloewe.ips will correct the spelling of one of the graphical text strings on the records screen (from "DEBREIFING" to "DEBRIEFING").

You can use this patch with the "debug" and/or with the "final" ver- sion of AGTP's patches as both are affected.

  1. MENU FIX (applies to: "final" version only)

agtp_starfox2v1.0_menufix_by_manuloewe.ips will correct a bug in the main menu. Note that this bug only affects the "final" version of AGTP's translation!

To see the bug in effect, start the "final" version of the translated game, go to the main menu, select "MISSION" and press B. When the difficulty selection menu appears, press Y. You will be taken back to the main menu. Now, press Up or Down on the Control pad several times. You'll be able to blindly select the test, training, and config menu items, which shouldn't actually be available in the "final" version of the translation.

Make sure ONLY to use this patch with the "final" version of AGTP's patches. If used with the "debug" version, it'll no longer let you select the test, training, and config options in the main menu!

  1. STAFF ROLL FIX (applies to: "debug" & "final" versions)

agtp_starfox2v1.0_staffroll_by_manuloewe.ips will correct the color of the very first line of the staff roll sequence. It says, "EXECUTING SECURITY CROSS CHECK." In the "debug" version of the translation, the line is actually visible (albeit in the wrong color), but in the "final" version, it was accidentally blacked out completely, resul- ting in no more than a green cursor flickering across the bottom of an otherwise black screen. This patch restores the color the line is displayed in to its original shade of light gray.

You can use this patch with the "debug" and/or with the "final" ver- sion of AGTP's patches as both are affected. [/quote]

The lag fixes mentioned by Literal appear to be fixed by something else, nothing that these patches are fixing (as you can see from the list of fixes above). Guessing that the ROM that was being used before was a bad copy. Can't really explain it, but if this one is faster, then that's awesome for emulator users I guess!

eiphei likes this
Pennsylvania, USA

I wanna say this can be handled easily, if on console you wouldn't select emulator, site does it for us tbh. This is the only game in star fox series that allows emulators, so very simple fix here

Ontario, Canada

Ah, yeah that's true I didn't see that was already a selection when submitting a run. Seems to solve it nicely.

United States

Remember, those could just be the more notable fixes. Not all programmers write down every single change when they make a patch

Ontario, Canada

A speed increase is pretty significant. I find it incredibly unlikely he would neglect to mention that (especially given that he wrote about the changes in some detail... doesn't come across as a person who leaves things out). Also, it's not 1 patch, but 3 separate patch files with descriptive names included in the zip:

  • agtp_starfox2v1.0_debriefing_by_manuloewe.ips
  • agtp_starfox2v1.0_menufix_by_manuloewe.ips
  • agtp_starfox2v1.0_staffroll_by_manuloewe.ips

I still can't fully explain the speed change you're seeing with this ROM (I'm still assuming it's emulator-specific), but it appears to be completely unrelated to these 3 patches at least.

Ontario, Canada

I did some checking as I was curious why I didn't end up with exactly the same ROM file after applying all 4 patches manually, and discovered that the ROM you guys have picked as the standard one ("Star Fox 2 (Japan) (Proto) (Alt 1) [En+Hack by Aeon Genesis v1.0] [Fix by ManuLoewe] (Final Version)") does not include the third patch "agtp_starfox2v1.0_staffroll_by_manuloewe.ips". This is probably because that patch was released 2 years after the other two patches, so I'm guessing the ROM download was put up on that site before that time.

All this means is that with that ROM, the final credits is still missing this line of text at the start of the sequence: http://manuloewe.de/kayen/sf2_staffroll.gif

Ukraine

Can I stream using obs?

Pennsylvania, USA

Yes, OBS has a window capture for when using emulator. OBS is also the preferred streaming program amongst speedrunners

United States

Here's a new twist: Star Fox 2 is getting an official release, and probably won't be the same game as these protos

United States

Depending on how different it is it'll justify its own game.

United States
Edited by the author 6 years ago
South Carolina, USA

...and if it is, that would just give us a new game to run. I'd still run Star Fox 2 regardless of version we get. :) Simple as that.

United States

I'll leave it to the moderators to decide the name change by the time it's released. They could add on (Beta) or similar to the end of it. There's too many runs to justify removing the boards.

South Carolina, USA

True, and members of the Star Fox community and I have came to the same conclusion.

No judgement calls yet. Once we have the game in hand, then we'll start analyzing it, ripping it apart, etc.

Until that time, we'll still enjoy the beta.

Pennsylvania, USA

Yeah we're holding off on any talks about Star Fox 2 until it gets released, though we'll probably have some sort of discussion leading up to it, it's too early to say anything but it is very exciting to say the least that this game is gonna get a lot of competition in the near future.

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