I was wondering if we could work on defining what this category is, as I put a run out and it seems like beating Bosc doesn't seem like it's part of the percentage in the category. It would make more sense for the run to be complete when Blasto enters the Harem after rescuing all the babes from there. Need opinions from other mods and anyone else on this

I haven't done all babes but if collecting all of them leads to an alternative official ending, then yes that is where all babes should end. A good example would be Crash Bandicoot, Any% defeats Cortex (The final boss), but all Gems skips Cortex and takes a bonus route to an alternate ending.

Edit: Having watched the run, it does not appear to be an alternative ending, meaning Bosc would still be required in my opinion, however, you should be required to show all babes are collected, arbitrary or not, either by doing the harem, showing it directly if possible, or if potentially faster, beating every level to get to the hub ASAP, then simply warping to every level and pickup babes that were out of the way significantly so that every chapter shows "0 Babes Remaining" on it.

So either route in back tracking but skipping harem scene and going out of the way initially, or route everything together in one front to back run, then back track only for a few or, if possible, no babes and show the harem scene.

Also: do you know if collecting a babe gives Blasto a new respawn point? I know he is on the ground but if the cutscene overrides the games ability to flag you as safe there are a lot of potential death warps here I bet.

But the thing is you know you have all babes when you activate the harem, and the babes strip Blasto down to his underwear. There's different dialog during the first cut scene of Bosc before you fight him, where he acknowledges you being in your underwear. Not sure about that doing anything to the respawn points, I don't think it makes a difference there.

Forgot to mention the final scene of the game, it shows Blasto in his underwear too. This is when you beat bosc and you're shown the ending of the game of him escaping the place before it's blown up.

So you wouldn't say you need to go to Harem to activate the alternative ending or cutscenes to have met the percentage requirement? Have to think about rerouting this, and working on the rule change

Makes sense, and of course you do see the number of babes from each one you save, so as long as every level shows "0 babes remaining" then that is verification as you said yourself.

yeah, however the harem is a nice backup if you aren't worried about being super competitive and want an easy way to verify, though its completely optional

Okay I have a lot to say here so I am going to try to break my opinions down in a easy and more organized fashion than I would normally.

First I will just state what the rules should entail imo tobetbh: The rules need to be much clearer. If its about collection it should just have the collection, no reason to beat the game even if you're merely just collecting for a % which doesn't actually even effect the game itself in any way other than like powerups or w.e. Had you had to do like bonus level's and stuff I think it would be a different story, but I don't know if this is the case? I still don't completely know what happens when you collect all the babes tbh, but if anything is unlocked I think it should be done as a part of the run IMO otherwise I feel like its just like collecting extra heartpieces in zelda or something to me.

Secondly: Obviously everything in speedrunning is arbitrary.... Any% Low% are probably the only two really definitive categories because you know you're beating the game by all means possible, and you have to beat the game with as small amount of completion as possible. Like for an example, in A link to the past, the Any% run would be the same thing as a Low% run because you beat the game from the start of the game without obtaining a single item lol It is super important that things like these are discussed a lot by the community/runners. In the end anyone can make their own set of rules, but for the integrity of the LB/community its really big to talk these things out as well as possible.

Uh I have a lot of things to say, but for one, I don't really think opening your menu or something to show the % should be a requirement for the run at all. It would make verifying easier yea for sure, but that wouldn't effect the actual in game % just like not doing the Harem or w.e it was wouldn't.

Anyways sorry just super busy and tired, so these thoughts aren't coming out super great but I am down to discuss this better/more. Maybe even something we should bring up in Discord

From the sounds of things tho, I feel like maybe the category should be switched to like, "Funny Ending" or something like that

EDIT: Also I think we should have a link for our discord here on the boards

1. if there is a discord why isnt it here D:

2. if you were talking to me, I was merely suggesting the Harem, by no means should it be mandatory, but then again this is already an arbitrary category so I personally would lose time to do it becuase why not, and it also makes verifying the run so much easier. IDK about you but as a mod, not only would you have to see if they started correctly and ended correctly, you would have to find the exact spot in all 11 chapters containing babes, where they collected the last babe, just to make sure they have "0 Babes remaining", and not everyone has time to watch an hour run just to check all of this when there is a very simple way, such as maybe uploading splits w/ runs so mods can look at your split times to see where you split when you collected the last babe of Chapter X (just a suggestion). Sure there is a faith system but... well tbh if having faith in other runners worked why is there run splicing and cheaters in speedrunning to begin with?

3. as for Rustos point, I think it comes down to the game and the community. All runners should get a say, all mods should get a say, all category runners should get a very big say. But IMO a run needs an ending. If collecting the last babe was enough why does the game not end there? I think the main difference between all journals in spelunky is you dont get anything special in game (that I am aware of) for getting this so there is no reason to continue the run, since it would literally tack on an entire extra clear just to kill the boss, though dying to him is a great way to end the run if he has an entry mind you, BUT with blasto there is a reward for it that is MEANT to influence the way the games plays, cheesy and optional or not it does influence the run in a very significant way, just like in Crash Bandicoot how, sure you dont have to beat the final boss in All Gems, but you still have to beat the actual game, just in a different way.

just my 2 cents.

No yea I can completely understand where you are coming from, and like you also said, it just makes it easier if everything is super clear so that way newer runners/anyone currently involved in the community are fully aware of the deal and there is no need for fights/arguments later on down the line.

I did mean more like just grabbing heart pieces (idk bad way to compare I guess sorry lol) like along the way on a speedrun or something, but like u dont get hearts. Just kinda unfulfilling due to the lack of reward from the 100% completion.

I can fully understand where you come from, and I kinda have a similar feel, I actually agree with that just about completely, but still almost feel like it would be okay for the run to end on the final babe collected. Like I personally like the idea of getting the alternate cut-scene, as its something you could only play by getting that % or w.e but even then we could prob try to find ways to glitch it and get the cut-scene to play otherwise and maybe that would be cool as well?

But honestly I am not sure where my stance is really tbh. I am def into discussing what everyones opinion is and how routing to differ

If you want SaintConnor you can use my run as a reference, there's a lot of strats, clips and interesting things in the All Babes route. Just remember not to forget the babes on episode 3 like I did then lose loads of time lol. I'm sure that my route can be improve, as it just doesn't seem fully optimal with those strats, new ones could be implemented for sure. As for checking submissions, I always watch the run from beginning to end, it would be even more important to do that with these types of categories, as I proved to myself I even forgot some babes and had to backtrack. It's a big category, and a lot to do