UPDATE: Rules have now been updated.

ORIGINAL:

I am working on an update to the rules for the Any% (No Skips). The goal is not to actually change the rules, but rather to add clarity to the existing rules. Ideally, this will help to both make the category more accessible to new runners and make the category easier to moderate.

I'd like to get feedback about all aspects of this! Does it actually make the rules clearer? Are there any rules that still don't make sense? Is it too wordy? Have I overlooked something?

I'd especially like to make 100% certain that the modified rules 1) don't accidentally ban anything used in any existing runs and 2) don't accidentally ALLOW anything that was previously banned (even implicitly). Thanks for your help!

I'm also compiling a list of specific examples (with video clips) of tricks that are and are not allowed under these rules, but I haven't finished that yet.

Without further ado, here is the proposed re-write:

Formerly known as Glitchless. Beat the game without using glitches or other tricks to skip meaningful portions of the game. Accidentally using a skip or glitch is acceptable ONLY IF no unfair advantage is gained; any accidentally-skipped section MUST be replayed correctly (e.g. by dying intentionally) for the run to be considered valid.

Runs require a video to be deemed verifiable.

Control rules:

1. Turbo/Autofire and tricks that require pressing opposing directional buttons simultaneously (up+down or left+right) are banned. These can provide an unfair advantage over using an official controller.

Category rules:

2. Do not use glitches/exploits to travel through solid walls or barriers. These exploits include (but are not limited to) the "single-frame tap" method, preserving velocity from moving platforms to carry Klonoa through walls and barriers, and using giant moos to squeeze through nearby unintended gaps. NOTE: This does NOT apply to "solid" objects that can simply be walked through normally, including doors DURING their opening animation.

3. Do not carry, squeeze, or grab enemies through unintended doorways or barriers, i.e. those where enemies normally do not fit.

4. Do not throw enemies through unintended geometry to hit targets earlier than intended, including the vine walls in vision 3-1.

5. Do not enter rooms blocked by key doors without first using a key to open the door.

6. Do not travel between separate rooms except through intended doorways.

7. Do not travel to "unreachable" areas of the SAME room earlier than intended. "Unreachable" areas include paths/planes that are entirely off-screen and can only be reached by unintended triple jumps, require heavily exploiting enemy re-spawn positions to reach, or can only be reached directly by checkpoint/death abuse. NOTE: This rule does NOT generally apply to using smaller unintended DOUBLE jumps between paths/planes, jumps where the target path is visible onscreen, or damage abuse that would be readily understood by a casual player.

8. Do not traverse "out-of-bounds" regions (areas that are not intended to be reachable at all).

9. Please contact the moderators/discord before submitting a run that uses ANY method to skip a meaningful portion of intended gameplay (especially something not used in other runs in this category), even if it's not covered by the above rules. This is simply to help avoid the use of newly-discovered skips or "loopholes" that are likely to violate the spirit of this category.

Emulation rules:

10. For CD loading speed, maximum allowed values are : - 2x (Quad Speed) for DuckStation ||| - 4x for Retroarch/Beetle. If you've played on a PS2, please indicate on the same field if you've used the Fast Disk Speed feature. If not, just choose --- as a value. NOTE: If you're running on the emulators that are allowed to be used with a modified disc speed, it is strongly recommended that you show proof of the setting used somewhere in the footage of the run to make verification easier. Runs with allowed loading speeds will not be rejected simply for forgetting to show this, but runs with loading times faster than what is obtainable on official hardware WILL be rejected.

Timing rules:

11. Timing starts upon the first frame the player starts moving, after getting past the beginning cutscene of the first Vision.

12. Timing ends upon the first frame of Nahatomb's last health bar breaking up into pieces, after decreasing to zero.

Oh, I didn't know you also planned on rewriting all the other smaller rules lines present in the panel. If they are agreed upon at the end of this, we'll have to standardize all rule panels with them

It is pretty dense and overloaded as it is, especially in contrast with the other rule panels (even if they can't be compared), but imo I don't think it can be helped much fundamentally. We will most likely do a general rule text reorganization soon afterwards, moving ubiquitous stuff like "run requires video" or the "disk speed" bit in the main rules panel, all in order to significantly reduce text overload, so it'll appear better.

It's a very hard one, as it serves the purpose of explaining the foundation of no skips some more, in a clear and formal manner, but also suffers from being complicated and scary looking. Doesn't it run the chance of confusing/tiring people away from it ? (I don't have the answer to that question)

Maybe we could do a tl;dr in the rule panel of the category, and link to this thread for the complete rule text. Like, "Formerly known as Glitchless. Beat the game without using glitches or other tricks to skip meaningful portions of the game. here's link to full rules (https://full rules). tl;dr : don't use list the skips that can't be used if you have doubts about something, make sure to aks someone "

Cause honestly, even though it would cover the category very nicely, I don't think the vast majority of people will ever be concerned with all those situations, so we shouldn't bother them will all the full thing ...welp, what I just proposed is literally not putting the text you wrote in the rule panel but keep it here instead, huh It's also pretty unorthodox, and I don't know if it is a well appreciated practice (again, don't have the answer).

I don't feel it was particularly hard to manage no skips runs before. After all, we've never had any submissions problems related to what your rules are trying to prevent. And then, I feel that us as reviewers of DtP would easily be able to morally pardon or rule out a run that does these things by the mere hand. These are like obvious unspoken rules of conduct.

So in the end I guess I'm still pretty conflicted about it's actual relevancy and usefulness. Not exactly fully against it, and if that's what people choose then I'll be more than happy for it. But, aside from the look of it, I think it was pretty fine and innocent as it was before.

Well that's it then. I think that removing 9. and the bit that's after explaining what the category stands for (as they are either obvious or negligible information), and keeping the rest for the category rule panel would be good

That's at least my opinion for now. I'm open to any differing statement or mistakes for the time being. And looking forward to what others have to say.

I did consider heavily that it might make it scarier because there's "more" to it, but I ultimately this might be balanced out by the fact that it will make people LESS afraid of unintentionally doing something against the rules, especially if they don't know what all of the particular examples of banned tricks referenced in the current rules refer to.

I've specifically seen people be afraid of doing things like the double jump near the beginning of 2-1 to skip the small platforming section, the door animation skips, certain damage boosts, etc. so my goal was to let people find clear answers to those questions.

I expect people will mostly learn the category by watching existing runs, since those are guaranteed to be "safe," and then consult the rules once they want more detail.

Also, I wanted to keep the section addressing when accidentally doing a skip invalidates a run, mainly because I've watched a lot of glitchless Sonic the Hedgehog tournaments, and it's a question that comes up multiple times in every single one.

And honestly, I once even reset a run after accidentally doing the 2-1 door skip even though I probably could have salvaged it (time-wise) by going back and grabbing the key. I wasn't sure I wanted to submit a run with a banned trick even if it was an "obvious" technicality, but having it be explicitly allowed would have made me more comfortable with it.

That effectively answers my gripes.

Well, to be fair, another thing that helped me change opinion might be that, since their birth, I always had a picture of the current gameplay restrictions rules standing like "just don't perform x, y, z... and you'll be fine". Literally child's play to know how to play the game. But claiming that this view is an accurate representation of how the rules really look like right now would be a lie. I, probably along with Elsiz, might be the only person with this mental image of the rules, because we were closely involved with the design of glitchless/no skips in the first place. In other words... this isn't the norm at all. And in that sense I can understand people would be more inclined to feel a little uneased playing the category, knowing the outlines of its restrictions and its way of play is all so unfamiliar, blurry and unwelcoming...

In light of this realization, and that your proposed changes would basically stand as means to simply refine the rules to get rid of those concerning side-effects, as it is, I don't see how or why I could be against that.

Thanks for both your feedback and concerns! I'm going to keep this thread open through (at least) the end of the week to make sure most people get a chance to look over it and give any feedback they have (and also to give me a chance to notice any major mistakes).

I've added the word "grab" to rule 3 to make it more clear that it bans the 5-2 gate skip.

OK, I'm planning to update the category-specific rules to what's listed in the top post here tomorrow. I'll leave the sections that are shared between categories unchanged for now, since that would need to be coordinated between categories and probably should be part of a larger effort.

Nothing about the change is irreversible, so don't hesitate to raise concerns even after the rules are updated.

For reference (especially for anyone reading this after the change has happened), the OLD rules are the following:

Formerly known as Glitchless. Beat the game without using skips, or certain tricks coming from these skips.

Runs requires a video to be deemed verifiable.

Restrictions : =1= Turbo/Autofire, and left+right/up+down button presses based tricks are banned (e.g fast waterfall walking). =2= No wall-clip tricks use or skips. =3= No pulling enemies through unintended doorways (mainly concern the 4-1 clock skip). =4= No out of bounds. =5= Remove moving platform speed tricks are not allowed. =6= Skips between different rooms are not allowed. =7= Skips between parts of the same rooms are not allowed under the condition that : the place the player would arrive at from the skip is, under normal gameplay circumstances, either not visible (e.g : 6-2 end skip / 4-1 end room door skip), or unreachable (e.g : old 6-1 skip before wall-clips were a thing / 6-2 giant Moo block bypass). The only exception to that is the medium plane jump situated at the far right end of the final room in 4-1.

If you're running on the emulators that are allowed to be used with a modified disc speed, it is very recommended to show proof of it somewhere in the footage of the run. Maximum allowed values are : - 2x for duckstation ||| - 4x for retroarch/beetle. If you've played on a PS2, please indicate on the same field if you've used the Fast Disk Speed feature. If not, just add --- as a value.

Timing rules :

• Timing starts upon the first frame the player starts moving, after getting past the beginning cutscene of the first Vision.

• Timing ends upon the first frame of Nahatomb's last health bar breaking up into pieces, after decreasing to zero.

Tomorrow I'll probably rearrange the rules and put stuff into the main rule panel, as I said I would have liked to do. (done)