So, uh, people in Dekap's chat were telling me the leaderboards "have gone to shit" and I need to change them. So I tell ryedawg to post on the forums, but he "doesn't want to look like an idiot", so I'll look like the idiot for him I guess.

So I'm not exactly sure what is wanted, but it seems like the DLC debate has come up again in it. Also "everyone should run on one patch(?)". Also, apparently Kyle wants stuff changed, but again, he hasn't said or posted anything, so how am I meant to know?

So I guess this thread is here for people to discuss what they actually mean/want. We need a central, archived place we can talk about this, it's what the forums are for (and luckily are usually used in this way already usually), talking about this stuff in chats/Mumble/TeamSpeak means some people will miss out on points of the debate.

I'll add my points later when I have actually thought about this a bit more.

Hi, I'm really new at speedrunning GTAV so... For the rules, I'm not able to say anything, and in fact I don't even know if the DLCs that were in console versions are included directly in PC version...

I just would like to say that you (zoton2) said me on witwix's chat that any% NMS was actually the most popular category, and it's not classic%. When I first came on the speedrun.com's GTAV main page, the category that was showed as the main category was Classis%, but in fact, it was not. But perhaps I just didn't understand what you said, and Classic% is still the main category, but any% NMS is more popular for the moment...

Also the Classic% guide by ToriksLV that is one month old looks already outdated. He says to buy couple grenades after the mission Complications and to use them to deathwarp after Daddy's Little Girl. Perhaps this is the only outdated part because you said me that Classic% was outdated so I looked at the differences between Classic% and NMS and, until, the long stretch, that's all I saw, and I didn't look further :P

from what gathered from that TS discussion on dekap stream, the smart solution will be to NOT remove runs, but add a DLC/noDLC variable to classic%

I haventy tested if grenadeless strat is faster so i cant post to use them but the only thing that i havent added. We already discussed DLC topic, free dlcs are allowed and offcourse paid ones if they arent preorder exclusive. Right now there arent any dlc guns/cars on pc that would change something for speedrun.

Classic% drama and people cpomplains about Classic% was forced Ending C, i am fine with removing ending C as a rule, but that topic died so no final verdict as of now. Other one was special ability use andd on pc it wouldnt be difficult to remove that sicne you can bind keys.

I mean if we want more people to run the game and especially Classic% then i guess no DLC allowed + ending of your choice would be best, but then again lots of invalid runs where someone accidently used dlc gun or smth.

DLC and no DLC runs would create anoother category and too many/unnecassary isnt good. Did older gtas had any dlcs? I dont think so.

All in all we wont agree on everything since for example rydawg hates DLc but is die hard fan of ending C, so someone has to sacrifice on something.

EDIT: Changed some runs to "Yes", even though they don't use the DLC, but they already have the garage bought. Read below for more information, but I dunno if this should be kept this way or not?

OK, so after hearing what some people were talking about, it seems like this all revolves around DLC. On the older consoles, once the heist update came out, the DLC weapons are no longer put straight into your weapon wheel, which means if you choose to buy the game right now on old consoles, you are at a disadvantage. I'm not sure about the auto-buying garage though, so someone would have to confirm that.

What I have done right now is add a "DLC" variable, and right now it does not default to "No", although I can be set to do that, but I thought I'd let people see how it looks before I do that.

I went through all of the main categories (Trevor% is going to take at least an hour to go through them all and then go through obsolete runs too) to see how this looks, and if we choose to do it, someone will have to go through the Trevor% runs too (if anyone cares enough about them). For people who's top time had DLC, I went through their obsolete runs to see if they had a run without DLC, but some didn't, and some might do, but their VODs no longer work.

SEE THE EDIT AT THE TOP -

Have a play around with the variable to see how it changes stuff, tell me what you think, etc. I just think the DLC removal is penalising people who did a run before the rule changed, but without at least having the selector, you can't accurately compare runs really, so I guess this is a good middle ground.

BTW, with the "No" option, Dates still has WR, seeing as his old run seems to not use DLC, and Dekap's PB also doesn't seem to, so they still have top times, and Ryedawg gets lovely 3rd place! OneHand

I think its pointless to add DLC, its like difficulty variable where easy and hard is on the same leaderboard, just keep all lthe times that are now on the leaderboard, after changing rules DLc runs wont be accepted. But no one is runing on old gen consoles anyway :D

ryedawg, I don't think you actually read what Toriks said :P

(Well, I assume he means literally do nothing, but just don't allow DLC runs from now on if anyone happens to run on that version on the old-gen consoles.)

I didn't actually think you wanted third, it was just a joking comment I made. I thought you'd understand, but I guess not.

What I like about the DLC variable solution: we can make it so we don't just delete runs, but if someone wants to see a leaderboard with just "fair" (read: non-DLC) times, they have the option to easily do that.

Nothing needs to be changed. The leaderboards reflect the current runners' skill levels (as long as they haven't dropped one category and started another, never going back to improve their time to where it should be on the other LB). DLC is irrelevant. PC is the faster version. If Dates or Dekap ran PC, and put a lot of time and effort in PC, they'd destroy all of the current times, and this is without any "DLC", and you know it. These are just two examples, other runners could do the same. A "DLC Used" variable is worthless imo and can only cause an ignorant observer to believe something which just isn't true, e.g., "PC isn't the fastest version because it has no DLC" or "This runner only has a better time because they used DLC". The variable isn't helpful as the leaderboards already reflect the skill of the runners.

The original decision was to allow all DLC which is still obtainable on at least one version of the game and to not allow DLC which is no longer obtainable on any versions of the game. Well, I don't like this plan anymore. It's only causing issues. Again, DLC is irrelevant. We need to just make it clear that ALL DLC is allowed, every last bit of it. Then, people can stop wondering "Can I use this DLC? Is this allowed?"

Also, requiring everyone to run on the same patch is absolutely absurd.

The thing I mentioned to Ryedawg the other day was maybe we should consider adding a "DLC used" variable. After thinking it through, I don't think it's worth doing. We were also discussing which DLC is no longer obtainable. Again, after thinking it through, it doesn't matter how advantageous this DLC is because PC is the fastest version as of right now and this is without any of the "unobtainable" DLC or the use of the $500,000 bonus at the start of the game. Ryedawg was right to bring this up because the last time we talked, none of my thoughts in this post were brought up.

I don't think DLC is irrelevant. That DLC chopper really saves minutes on Lamar Down for instance. The fact it is not available for PC version does therefore have some impact. I'm not saying that PC is not the superior version for speedrunning, it's too early to conclude this, but that's at least one strike in favor for the consoles.

Eventhough it adds more compexity, I'm in favour of Zoton's solution: making it a variable that you can filter the ladders for.

It doesnt save that much time on Lamar down. For me personally it didnt save anything. Dont see anythign else. PC is faster even if consoles has DLC.

When we compared Dates' split with our best one (I'm talking plural because I usually do runs with my housemate Meridian), we found the difference to be well over a minute. Now our driving might not have been perfect, but it does make sense that the chopper saves something on such a long stretch of travelling.