The categories for this game are pretty out of date
8 years ago
United States

There is another thread on including an All courses category, but I'll talk about that in a second.

The categories for this game seem a bit out of whack. The game and speedruns that I've seen tend to focus on completing planes (besides a single TAS of the first plane training mode) and the categories might be better off reflecting this.

To clarify, each plane, or mode in the US version, is separated into four sections: training, beginner, expert, and special. In completing all four of these, you advance to the next plane or mode with its own four separate races. In the Japanese version these are just First, Second, Third, and Fourth Plane. In the US Version these are Beginner Mode, Expert Mode, Master Mode, and Special Mode. While each mode's courses have their own levels as part of them, it almost makes sense to think of each course as an IL of each plane. The amount of levels in all the planes total to 100 individual maps. The fact that there are 4 Training, Beginner, Expert, and Special Courses makes the current categories a bit confusing as well.

With the idea of using planes instead of courses, it might make sense to include an all planes/courses category. The issue with this is that the code/high score input screen is super wonky and a separate skill in itself to enter things quickly. I personally think the best way to circumvent this is to use the level select code and start from level 00. Doing this would allow for users to do each course individually, showing all animations, with the ability to move on to the next course seamlessly after completing each course as completing a final level of a course brings you back to the level select screen. I saw this was recently added, so it seems some progress in categories has been made.

Final things I've noticed: The first, I have no idea why "gravity mode" is included as a category. The gravity cheat allows you to choose from 9 different gravity options, one for each planet. The category seems really arbitrary as it doesn't specify which gravity to set it to, which makes each run not comparable to the next. I don't see why this needs to be a category.

I also don't know why runs are supposed to include in-game time. Is this supposed to be the time left at the end of the level or the time using the level time code? I think it is unnecessary as the vast majority of speedruns rely on real time vs in-game time. I'm not sure about the rule to include the code in the first place. It seems really unnecesary as there are perfectly good tools (e.g. livesplit) to refer to time completing each category.

In reference to emulators, I think it is obvious in every run states are not allowed. It probably doesn't have to be included in the category description. Why is Snes9x banned by the way? It is allowed for popular speedrun games such as SMW and don't see why it would be bad for this game. Just curious.

I'm not trying to bash on everything you've done. The fact that there are runners of this game is great enough. I just want to make it better and I feel like these changes make the most sense. Please let me know if you want me to expand on anything.

Minnesota, USA

Thanks for the input. It would be more convenient to just use the level select cheat, but the main problem with that is that the cheat doesn't save after resetting, and you would have to sit through the ranking screens, which would cost about 3-4 minutes in the all courses run. I don't know if it would still be faster overall to use the level select. I think that it would be good to allow level select, though.

For gravity mode, you can set it to whichever category is most convenient for that particular course. It is, admittedly, pretty arbitrary, so I didn't include it as an official category.

The in-game time really makes more sense for the individual courses, because it would be inconvenient to add up all of the times for longer categories. I think that I'm going to split the individual courses up into ILs. The reason for using the time records code is as a way to verify that you've beaten each level.

I feel that everyone may not be aware of which emulators are allowed, so I wanted to make sure to clarify. I simply copied whichever emulators were banned on SRL. SNES9x v1.50 and up are allowed, but older versions aren't, because they aren't always accurate, and may run faster than an actual SNES.

Twogood, your input is welcome as well.

United States

Splitting the courses up into IL's is fine and probably encouraged as each of the individual 100 levels has its own optimizations to work out. In this instance I can see the in-game timer code to be very useful.

There are 16 separate courses, 15 with animations that could potentially interfere with the run. You fortunately can skip through the vast majority of the cutscenes by mashing the B button when they start, saving a significant amount of time between screens. The only potential problem would be with the high score entry screens, as the janky controls may cause you to miss hitting end. I highly doubt that this would add up to 180 seconds of time loss, but I could be wrong. I plan on comparing versions of this game (cameltry vs on the ball) and I'll also look at that, but that is for a different discussion. Personally, I think there is a ton more room for error unless you go extremely slow on the code entry screen for getting to other planes, so while it may be potentially slower, it is 100% safer as a "strat".

What I am trying to say with the current categories is that it doesn't really make sense for the individual parts of each plane to be their own separate categories. 4 planes x 4 categories = at least 16 main categories for the game which is pretty excessive, and it seems arbitrary to keep things the way they are with only counting the first plane in all categories except for all levels. Categories themselves are essentially splits/subcategories of planes it seems.

What I was saying about in game time is that for almost every game I've seen, time on the menus after the game officially starts is counted towards the actual run time. I just don't see why it makes sense to go off individual level time for any category except ILs. A user's splits should be fine except in the case of very very very close records in my opinion.

Minnesota, USA

From timing the ranking screen earlier, it took about 11 seconds or so, so with 15 ranking screens, it takes a total of 11ยค15=165 seconds=2:45, and skipping the animations also takes some time. I'll also probably look into JAP differences(unrelated: the final level in the JAP version is different)

I've added IL categories for each course, and I'll remove the separate categories for ILs when all of the runs get reposted under the IL category. As far as in-game time goes, I'm pretty sure that it's not necessary to input your ingame time anyway, so I don't think it's a big deal.

PS: It's cool to see someone else take an interest in this game :)

Game stats
Followers
15
Runs
72
Players
9