10 Star should be console only due to that script which counts kills and items, giving a huge advantage over console runners who can't even pause the game to do tallying because the IGT continues to run. Unless we only allow emulators that DONT work with the script in which case runs should have the actual window showing with the emulator header etc.

the new program is just an in-game timer which is not illegal. Because Samuca's excuse for the reason he should be allowed to use the scripting program was that it also had an in-game timer. (It just happened to have these other features which he used it for((and admitted to using it for)) that were unfair and cause for ban)

" Could someone please show a screenshot of the ideals settings/plugins to emulate perfectly (would be even interesting to define a default setting). "

Use epsxe GPU core plugin, and then change literally nothing off the default. Other than like, windowed/fullscreen I guess. But the game emulates fine if you change seriously zero of the settings off from their default. The button in the bottom left labelled "Fast" under default settings, the settings that epsxe recommends for optimal performance, are these default settings.

"Anyone who does not have a recent hardware is automatically eliminated from the competition."

any computer made after the turn of the decade is not gonna struggle with default espxe settings. And at this point, this isn't really anything to do with the ruling and probably ought to be moved into a different thread so people can help with your technical issues without it getting in the way of a ruling discussion.

Speaking of the ruling, I've made a poll with I think just about every option we have in this scenario, so cast thine ballot and with any luck we can make a more final decision about this:

http://www.strawpoll.me/11522675/

You can pick multiple options, please do so if you would be ok with a few of the choices listed, it gives me more data to work with.

maybe I should make another thread with just the poll in it or something idk how to make people see this stuff

I didn't mean to create any problems, The fact that I'm not a native english speaker is making the communication a little difficult. So, let's reason together... First of all, I want to make some things clear:

1º - I agree with using ePSXe's latest version (2.0.5) (Due these questions of emulation preciseness)

2° - About the use of Dchaps's script, I always used it since it came out. But since on the Easy Any%, Easy Good+, Normal Good+ and UFO categories the number of kills and items you get doesn't make difference, I used it only to keep track of In Game Time.

3º - When I got the 10-Star WR, the script hadn't came out yet, since it came out on 3/9/16 and I submited the WR over an year ago.

4º - Responding to Radgecast about the kill's and item count: "When I was trying the 10-Star WR, I used two instances of Livesplit" "One counting melee kills and the other counting shooting kills" (I did that manually pushing a key on my keyboard)

About the items count, ALL of the 150 items necessary for the 10-Star run were pre-defined by heart before the gameplay" (Yes, I memorized EVERY item that I needed to get)

5º - About the script I spoke about with shunpuk some time ago, the script (.asl) was created on that time to be used in the Bizhawk emulator. (Punchy even tested this script live on stream, to test if it effectively work) AND IT DID.

However, my laptop at the time was too weak and I suffered with performance inconsistencies on Bizhawk, So, I didn't use the first script that was released.

6º - Regarding the lightning subject on 2.0.5 version, personaly I compared them side by side and I didn't see too much of a difference, but it doesn't affect anything to me, so, ePSXe 2.0.5 is perfectly ok for me.

7º - I was reluctant on the emulator update subject because... (Dchap's script shows us In Game Time in Real Time, personaly having the IGT shown in real time is important for my gameplay)

8º - What I'd like to have is a script that shows IGT working on ePSXe 2.0.5, NOTHING ELSE.

9º - I think it would be interesting to create SEPARATE categories by systems (consoles and emulators) to keep the leaderboard more organized.

10º - About the possible emulator cheating subjects...

• I think removing the 10-Star on emulator is not interesting, WHY?

• 10-Stars is an available category in the game, One of the most challenging in my opinion.

• Because if we think that the category can be cheated (ex:. kill / item count) ok...

• But different kinds of cheating could also be done in other categories (ex: Health control,Timer control and other things)

• With that being said, in my opinion removing emulation from all categories would be too drastic.

• Considering that the absolute majority of the board is done on emulation. (due to the factor of how practical emulation is)

• So, these are all the observations that I want to make about the leaderboard and the possible changes.

• I believe that separating the categories between emulator and consoles will put an end to the problem.

Dchaps, blaming you for making a useful tool that people exploit is like saying Alexander Graham Bell is responsible for The Jerky Boys. There was nothing innately wrong with the tool in principle. The response for the IGT mod has been extremely positive from what I have seen.

if you did not make that tool I would never have been able to prove to people that we didn't need to split the board into separate categories for every console and emulator by demonstrating and testing the true nature of the IGT and that is worth far far more than some little shitstorm over a category barely anyone even plays

Dchaps, you a cool dude, don't feel even slightly bad about this. You ain't responsible for shit.

Poll Result Stuff:

What That Means:

The only thing I can really glean from this is that a pretty sizable majority of people are in support of the new emulator rules, and in concordance with that majority. Those emulator rules just, are now the thing we will do. Banning/hiding emu broadly has zero support and separate category doesn't have enough support. That's that with that.

But as you can see, there is a decent amount of support for banning emulator specifically for 10 star. But it has also been pointed out to me that this was a stupid option to include in the first place due to it making almost no sense. (the option of a separate category for just 10 star was similarly stupid but also nobody picked it so oIo)

First, I want to clear up something for everyone who may have voted to ban emu on the grounds of script usage. The accepted emulators for SH1 runs under the current ruleset do not have any scripts available for them, so no player could use those scripts without creating one themselves, and anyone could do that with any game ever that runs on emulator or PC or otherwise. That risk is always there and is therefore honestly just not worth worrying about if it's totally unknowable. Script usage wouldn't be a factor under the new emulator rules anyway, so on that grounds banning emulator for 10 star /after/ enacting the broad emulator policy is entirely pointless and actually completely defeats the object of the broad emulator policy in the first place.

Secondly, banning emulator for ONE specific category doesn't make sense as a moderation move in this instance. In essence, voting to ban emulator from this category is essentially a vote for "We cannot know or trust people on emus playing 10 star to not cheat, so don't give them a chance". But this is true of literally every single category for the entire game, you cannot know if people on emu are going to cheat or not in ANY category, and therefore logically emu should be banned across every category. Nobody voted for that, because nobody actually wants that. So why this discrepancy?

Partially, I think it's because the poll was shittily constructed (as pointed out to me by others) and attempted to conflate too many issues into one listing which possibly misled the polling some, but also I think the response may have been a severe kneejerk reaction to perceived cheating in the category and whatever your opinion on the supposed cheating is, it's not a great reason to vote to ban emulator from the category, since it basically boils down to voting out of lack of trust in one particular dude which is a really shitty reason to enact a ruling like that. You don't prevent cheating in a category by fucking that category over entirely.

As an addendum, consoles have plenty of viable avenues to cheat in whatever capacity so they're not bulletproof in this regard either, so banning emu from 10 star over the chance of cheating makes even less sense to me.

The End Bit:

The emulator rules roll on forward and remain effective. While I see there is clearly low trust over 10 star categories, due to the fact the poll was kinda shittily put together and the timing of it was at an altogether too awkward and tense time for the community, I feel really uncomfortable enacting specific changes to a category based on it.

Enacting rules specific to the 10 star category probably won't be a thing that happens unless I am seriously, overwhelmingly outvoted on this (and I don't think i will be considering I was convinced by other members of the community) just because generally speaking, enacting per-category emulator bans and provisions is logically incohesive and comes across as a knee-jerk reaction to recent events and runners. If we want to ban emu or hide it or section it off into a different category, we should do it across the entire game as broad policy. People don't actually seem to want to do that as per the poll, so we shall not.

i'll keep this thread open so people can chat about it some more and maybe can get me to change my mind because trust me I am very open to listen to the arguments being presented, but after so much listening I feel pretty good about this conclusion.

It was mentioned that this could be the result of a knee jerk reaction. Perhaps a more formal poll regarding 10 Star could be readdressed in the near future (a few months)? I do think the informal poll showed that there was an interest in banning, but not to the point that it was a clear decision. This could have been due to the ability to vote for multiple solutions or any other number of things.

I would suggest looking back into this at some point just to get a more definitive answer on what is wanted.

Yeah, I'd rather allow some more time for the initial outrage to blow over and for people to maybe have a clearer picture and then if people still feel the same about 10 star then we'll go from there. Other problem was that I rolled just "the broad problem of emulator" and "10 star" into one poll, despite this being two largely separate issues. It was a mistake on my part to structure the decision like that.

I have just created and account here to register a message, because it's clear to notice that SuccintAndPunchy has neither skills or brains to moderate such an important page. The plugin and version restrictions created by you are ridiculous. For example I, playing Silent Hill on ps3, have a brighter screen than samuca. You just have to learn how to adjust your damn TV brightness, kid! Peace PS: It's intriguing that you changed the rules just after you got the record. Smartie kid, uh?

You're a moron.

PS: It's intriguing that nobody but a bunch of BRs cares after I beat samuca's time in a lame category. Smartie shitposter, huh? Further shitposting in this thread is just going to get nuked.

PS 2: i lost the record like a day ago because the change doesn't even remotely stop that from happening and was never slightly intended to. I have no idea how that conclusion ever gets drawn, it's not even remotely logical.

I don't see how that is necessary with how small the community is. In game time is the great equalizer. No one has even submitted for 10 star yet.

TV brightness has nothing to do with it. Old emulator versions are rendering the game differently. Period.

"Separate all races from ps1 and emulators "

No.

can we stop doing this thing where people who don't run the game (or any game for that matter and are pretty clearly just bandwagoning off a certain someone) ask for changes they don't understand the implications of?

I'm just gonna lock this thread for the time being, the discussion has largely settled and it only gets bumped by idiots who don't run this game or any game complaining on behalf of some other idiot.