[Important] The Future of Sonic Mania Speedrunning
6 years ago

Alright, as for what this post is going to be about, I'll be discussing how we should moderate this game on Speedrun.com.

A little bit of background for me in Speedrunning as well, I've been running for 5 years. I've had interest in multiple series, where I've submitted ILs and full game speedruns before, such as in Ratchet & Clank (Multiple Categories from the Original Trilogy and PS4) and in Sonic the Hedgehog (1, 3K, SA1, Heroes, Lost World) - Meaning I haven't exactly been around for the longest amount of time when compared to a lot of the users on this site, but I've had my fair share of experience with Speedrunning, and have had a consistent interest in multiple games ever since I started.

Thus, based on my experience, I've come to the conclusion that Sonic Mania shouldn't be handled the way it's being planned to, and that's mostly down to a couple of things.

For one, the current Moderators of this board seem unwilling to allow users to submit full runs at this moment in time (despite the overwhelming competition hot off the game's release) and to me and many others that could end up being rather detrimental to the game's short-term viability as a speedgame. If people are unable to submit runs at this point, it's very possible that interest will soon be lost and we could lose potential runners for this game, because it would turn people off from the get-go. Not saying this is assured, but it's a distinct possibility if we can't keep the ball rolling.

You're probably wondering why we can't yet submit runs, and the reason I've been given was to wait for the PC Version. I understand maybe for an IL Leaderboard (which I'll get onto later) but for full game runs this makes ZERO sense. I presume the reason behind this is for a possible (likely inevitable) patch that fixes a lot of the known bugs, but shouldn't be an issue at all, since said patch will surely come hand in hand on consoles as well? Even then as a community, we can decide whether we want to choose between 1.0 and later versions of the game, which makes this wait for the PC version all the more arbitrary.

Another thing is IL (individual level) leaderboards. The past games haven't had them, and I've seen people contest us on this out of tradition - But considering the fact that Time Attack IL Times aren't synced across multiple platforms, why not have a Leaderboard here on Speedrun.com like some other games do? Freedom Planet is a perfect example of how it should be handled

On a final note, other things we should consider are categories, and whilst not set in stone, I don't think we should just copy Sonic 2 or Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the sake of tradition. For example, in Mania, you can independently control Tails using a single controller, allowing Sonic/Tails to be a main category due to plenty of new routes opening up with a combination of Sonic's Elemental Shields and Tails' Flight. We also should re-consider the viability of "All Emeralds" for each category as well, even though they were kinda treated as a meme run for the Genesis Trilogy.

[if any of the mods want to discuss this - i'd love to by the way - contact me on discord or twitter]

Edited by the author 6 years ago
607, DavespriteCawCaw and 10 others like this
Texas, USA

I'm not a mod, but I would discuss some of this stuff as well...

I've only really been on speedrun.com speedrunning for about two years at most (if that even...), but I have watched many speedruns. MANY speedruns (heck, watching many Games Done Quick events was what got me into speedrunning!). And so I think that I would also be able to help out a small bit with somethings here (I don't know how much, but I will try regardless...).

I think people waiting for the PC version is just because of the fact that the PC version will have optimizations that the console versions just aren't powerful enough to handle, but I agree with the fact that waiting for full-game runs just because of the PC version doesn't really make sense at all...

I think one of the first things we should put on here are the ILs. That way we can start submitting some runs that are already done...

As for categories, what I thought was a good idea as main categories for full-game are Bad Ending and Good Ending (depending on the chaos emeralds). I originally said Any % and 100 % with those two as well, but I think 100 % would take forever with the bonus stages and having to get perfects. For subcategories I was saying the different character combinations (which include Sonic only, Sonic & Tails, Tails only, Knuckles only, and MAYBE also Sonic & Knuckles, Tails & Knuckles, and Knuckles & Knuckles).

Jaypin88 likes this

For stuff like Instashield/Peelout Sonic and the Knuckles variations, those would go under Misc. categories.

Jak8 likes this
Belgium

Concerning ILs. For every single Sonic game TSC has been used as the main IL hub. An IL board on src wouldn't make sense if TSC is going to add it. http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings

Edited by the author 6 years ago

Why not centralise everything here, aside from the sake of 'tradition' that I mentioned earlier?

607 and Sapphonix like this
Scotland

I can see the reasons the mods have handled things they way they have. PC release and a potential patch could have a lot of implications or they won't have any, we won't know until they release so right now there little point in having the leaderboard active for 2 week before a known release.

There is nothing stopping people from running the game right now and keeping times or improving on their own times before the leaderboards here become active. Personally I've just finished a Sonic All Emeralds run with a 1:40:xx RTA since I'm not sure on the timing or the categories but it hasn't stopped me from doing it. If people want to speedrun Mania then they will regardless of the leaderboard status.

607, kirbymastah and 4 others like this
Belgium

RE: Krypptuk consistency for the sonic games? If ILs get centrelized here then I feel like all the ILs should be moved which would be way too much work at this point.

They really don't have to be, and tbh if we did go that way we have a massive community, it wouldn't be that bad.

HatninjaGX likes this
South Australia, Australia

There's absolutely no need to rush decisions, at all. The reason runs aren't getting verified is because A) We're not 100% on the ruleset, and B ) Most of the mods are waiting for the PC release to play the game fully. The PC release may also change our decisions on rulesets and such.

Trying to rush decisions is just a recipe for disaster, and also makes no sense. We don't have all the information, so why try to make a decision yet? Just be patient, when that drops and we all start discussing these things, decisions will be made very actively. And moderators are added based on people who are not just active, but also knowledge, work together well with the other mods, and are trustworthy.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
607, Rmac524 and 6 others like this
United States

Werster with all the respect and all the love. Speedrunning in a whole will always be changing, as well as what routes/glitches will be used. Different versions of the game can lead to different discoveries over decades of pushing a game to the limit. Further, Sonic Mania Speedrunning came in like a sonic ball, and no one is looking back. At the end of the day no one can ever in their right mind say RTA will not be used when CP Act 2 boss has no timer. You guys posted runs for S3k before with IGT an later converted to RTA. Also, you being an avid pokemon runner also have gone through their timing method changing as well as new skips changing routes as well as having to re shuffle the leader boards. The point is this should be a monarchy, hundreds of people are speedrunning the game, and want to have their respect on the leader boards. Who is anyone to say hey man you have a great time, but do to people playing on a platform not out we cant decide on rules, and you cant have your glory. For all of you actually running the game i will update my post as well as the sonic mania discord with current best times: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/6u3zbx/sonic_mania_current_video_repository_list_to_get/ . Moreover the best recorded time so far for sonic RTA is GrimmyHunter 1:35:10

I made my peace

iden and Jak8 like this
Texas, USA

Nice man! And thanks, dude!

I just hope we can get a stable leaderboard so we can be able to submit to AGDQ 2018 much easier.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
United States

For God's sake, guys. It's two weeks. Calm your tits and run in the meantime. The mods have made their decision (which I think is a wise one) to wait until we have all the information before making a ruleset. I'll repeat: It's TWO WEEKS. Show some respect for the mods, back up the wahmbulance, and have fun running the game in the meantime. Nothing's stopping you.

HomuHomu, Jak8 and 9 others like this
Kentucky, USA

So, I am 100% new to this whole speedrunning joint when it comes to actual running (I've watched mainly KH runs). In that case, I can't add that much. As a hardcore sonic fan though, I mainly want a place where I can see times for IL. Right now on time attack (PS4) when it comes to GH1 as Knuckles, my PB is 53 sec 59 milsec (game time) as my PB and since when I pull up online leaderboards my game crashes, I just wanna know how I stack up versus other people

jocloud31 likes this