Hey everyone! I have a bit of a proposition for everyone to take a look at and see what your thoughts are. Over the last 4 years there have been requests, directly and indirectly, about various categories. One of those recommendations of course, was our community meme, the No Guest House. No Guest House has been a pain in the ass to everyone since it was introduced almost 3 years ago. It is difficult for us moderators in verifying because of the specificity of the save file and it is even more of a pain in the ass for anyone that wants to run it because of the hoops that you are forced to jump through just to get that save to work and additionally because of the forced exclusivity that it creates.

So this proposition is that we create a Category Extensions leaderboard as a sub-game, similar to how we have the DLC as sub-games. Once these boards are created, we would move the NGH to the Category Extensions leaderboards and with this move we would also make NGH less restrictive. What is being suggested is that we would remove the mandate for using the pre-made NGH zero’d save and allow everyone to create their own saves while using the same timing methods that are already in place for both PC and Console. This would open the category up for runners on PC using the Steam version, PS4 and PS5 runners, and it would make the run more accessible for Xbox and Microsoft Store version runners by getting rid of the difficult “installation” process. There would be certain requirements for saves being created by the runners to match the current NGH save for any runner created save to be valid:

•The runner created save MUST be created directly after receiving the knife from the Deputy. Making any progress beyond receiving the knife prior to making the save will automatically result in rejection. •The runner created save MUST have the inventory empty with exception that it must only have the knife. Any other items in your inventory prior to making the save will automatically result in a rejection. •The runner created save MUST not have the wall skip implemented at the time of the save. If the wall has been destroyed prior to creating the save, then it will automatically result in a rejection. •The runner created save MUST be created in as close to the same position in the laundry room to the original NGH save as possible with Ethan facing as close to the same place as possible. If the moderators deem the positioning too significantly different from the original NGH save, then the runner will have to accept the rejection and make a new save adjusting their position to the correct area.

This obviously will not protect against the potential for DA manipulation prior to creating the save. While this is not initially something that can be viewed as a positive, if we simply allow the DA manipulation and everyone can create their own save then anyone can attempt to manipulate the DA as part of their strategy. Having NGH as a Category Extension gives more freedom to the category than it should have as even a miscellaneous category on the main leaderboards. If we leave the NGH on the main leaderboards/decide not to create a Category Extensions board, then the current rules and accessibility will likely stay the same.

In addition to moving NGH to these Category Extensions, there are some new categories that we have had requests for in the past that would fit well specifically as Category Extensions. The most commonly asked for categories over the last 4 years are for a PSVR category and for the Beginning Hour Demo to have a category and we are planning to include these when the Category Extensions boards would be made. Besides being the most requested, they also work well as speedruns. The Beginning Hour demo has different endings, which allows for different categories for this run. PSVR would be any% only and include all the any% categories that you would see for the main game.

We are looking for your feedback on all of this as these are the ideas that we have and are not yet decided on. What are your thoughts on opening the NGH category from using the single pre-made save to runner created saves?

I love this idea. I'm a PS4 runner so NGH has never been an option for me and, let's be honest, sometimes Guest House is infuriating lol. So honestly these changes would make the category accessible to us PS4/PS5 runners and allow us a chance to take a break from the other categories.

NGH is and has always been a meme category. a meme category that is inaccessible with strange exclusivity is super weird.

i am fully on board with these plans.

and this is just me, but hopefully moving NGH away from the main games landing page will hopefully help new runners start with the main game, as opposed to the 88% version of it.

I just wanted to say I'm glad to see there's been continued interest in this "meme category" and that the mods are working on a solution. When this was originally suggested, it definitely wasn't ever supposed to be such a pain in the ass to get working.

Having this accessible to everyone will be a net positive! The original idea was being able to practice the actual game without the biggest reset points being after an on-rails section --- and in a semi-competitive way. It was always very unfortunate Steam/PS4 had to be excluded in the first place.

I don't mind either and I totally agree. a good idea

I'm in full support of this. The requirements for the save seem solid and this allows everyone to do NGH if they wish. I know I don't run this much, but I plan on doing NGH when I come back to it and it would be nice to have more runners for it with it being more accessible.

As someone who has struggled for hours even with the help of @CursedToast and @zgl to get the NGH save to work for me, I am in full support of this as well. I just couldn't seem to get the NGH save to not disappear when I was connected online and subsequently, had to make my own save to play this category. I don't mind it being moved to a category extension, if it means I can keep my PBs and continue running this. Thank you again for your help @CursedToast and @zgl

100% down for this. I sorta fell out of running this game, but if I can do NGH without too much trouble and without having to buy the Window's store version, then that would be a big motivator to come back, especially given most of my resets were to the wall clip and hallway skip.

I just wanted to go on and update everyone on this since we've given some time for everyone to look and comment. Between the comments here and on the discord there was not one person that came out as being opposed, which never happens when you're making changes to something in the world of speedrunning, so we are going to get to work on making these changes.

Please wait before submitting any more runs for No Guest House until after the new leaderboards are created and ALL of the existing runs have been transferred. This will make sure we don't end up with double submissions and it will allow us, the mod team, to make this transition go as smoothly as we can possibly make it.

One major thing has changed since we did a similar move of all of the DLC from the old leaderboards to the new sub-games, and that thing is that Speedrun.com has removed the ability for moderators and super moderators to create their own sub-games. Because of this we will be working with the new Speedrun.com site moderators to get this going, which means this new Category Extensions leaderboard is not going to happen at the snap of our fingers like how we handled the DLC leaderboards. I will be contacting the site moderators shortly to get this process rolling, and hopefully it won't take very long before we get the new leaderboards setup.

We appreciate all the feedback that we received, both on these forums and on the community discord, and look forward to getting things moving! As soon as I know when the new boards can be created I'll comment either here or on the discord, and once everything is ready for submissions I will make one last update on this post before locking it.

Apologies on the delay, but the new No Guest House leaderboards have been created and all of the old runs have migrated to the new boards already! You can find them on the new Category Extensions Leaderboards here: https://www.speedrun.com/re7ce

You can also find the PSVR Leaderboards on the new Category Extensions Leaderboards! With VR now having it's own leaderboards we will no longer be accepting runs for the main leaderboards that are done in VR. Any VR run that was submitted to the main leaderboards prior to March 18th 2021 will remain on the main leaderboards.

The Beginning Hour categories have not yet been added to the new Category Extensions boards. They are coming soon but we are finishing up the specifics of each of the categories! Once we add the Beginning Hour categories I'll make one last post/reply here saying that they're done!