Perpetuating the drama will not resolve the issue.
How about we get a respectable response from a mod on the entire situation and more specifically, its current status? Surely you will not stay idle in front of this SNAFU, will you?
haha, I think you're mistaking "gang behavior" for "community support," you'd just rather call us a gang for your convenience because you don't have community support of your own
I think you're mistaking my intentions and still keeping your childish behavior.
I think what's childish is your obvious attempt to take a shot at Zelda runners saying, "It's also curious how the only people who seem to have this kind of 'gang' behavior are Zelda runners, what's the deal with that?," telling us to stop complaining when we don't even run the game, and then trying to claim your intentions aren't what they appear to be and/or being mistaken. get over yourself dude lol
I'll note that a moderator of this board reacted to the very first bit of criticism with, "I guess that's hard to figure out for someone like you." The rudeness has come from both sides, not just Zelda runners and has escalated from there. I agree it has been largely unproductive. At no point did the individual who made this change really argue why it was necessary.
So instead of continuing this escalation and trying to claim some sort of Zelda runners vs Tetris runners factionalism - there's a bunch of us in here but it's safe to say the communities overlap - how about any defense of why this move needed to be made? It clearly has almost zero community support and there's a petition full of "yeas" to change it back in the other thread. Remember the golden rule from Klashik's Guide to Good Moderation: “'You do not decide for the community, the community decides for you.' Or alternatively: 'You are a representative of the community, not the ruler.'"
Well, the "zelda community" argument is entirely irrelevant, and has solely been used for insults and scapegoating by those who blindly support the decision and its premises. The issue has absolutely nothing to do with zelda and everything to do with an arbitrary decision that was taken without any kind of prior consultation. But I think we've established that already, haven't we?
See, when you make, and more importantly EXECUTE, a decision of this magnitude without consultation, you have to expect backlash from the community. There's no other way around it; you HAVE to expect it. And it's not something minor like an unpopular category being added; a distinct-enough category was removed, thus taking legitimate achievements away from players, merely because one person who happens to have a sword icon next to his name didn't like that.
And backlash there was (duh!). Anyone acting surprised at that has no business moderating a leaderboard on this site.
Oh, and before anyone comes out and says that I'm a "butthurt zelda runner", a mere look at my profile should suffice to prove the contrary. If anyone's THAT hellbent on labeling me "butthurt", at least call me a "butthurt tetris runner". Be that as it may, the change, along with its implementation, is BS, and so is trying to divert attention from that issue to the red herring that is the "zelda gang". That's just intellectually dishonest, and that's what I'm calling out.
@Loudgoat: Maybe you should just read the tone of the first bit of criticism, coming from the first conflictive person here.
@ViruseReturns: I get that. However, anyone in a moderator position is expected to be above that. Giving into the mud-slinging game is unbecoming of someone in that position. It doesn't paint the moderating team nor the duties said team has towards the community in a good light.
There's something I've learned in business: perception is reality. The more I grow, the more I see it's also applicable in all aspects of life. People would rather rely on their first impressions than dig deeper to find out what's behind. And as a moderator, I believe you have to keep that in mind at all times, especially when your main role is to represent the community and execute decisions said community wants you to.
@ViruseReturns VReznor went after the change made, sarcastically. Rottdawg hit Rez, rudely. You see how it has escalated, as I said right? Of course we can rehash the poo-flinging from the other night all we want. I still have yet to see the rationale for the change made, any community support for it, or any desire to create community support for it (which, again, should have been done BEFORE the change). Even the early, respectful comments from Eunos and sYn went unaddressed.
And at the end of the day, regardless if we are all just dirty Zelda runners or not, we are all (mostly) Tetris runners, and ive yet to see one non-mod back the changes the mods made without consent from the community. This is the kind of thing that will cause runners to delete their runs from your leaderboard and start their own.
Don't believe me? Ask Donkey Kong Country runners, or GoldenEye 007/Perfect Dark runners. Ask runners from ZeldaSpeedRuns.com about decisions made without that community's consent, and how that worked out for the ZSR.com boards.
The bottom line: the game is bigger than the mod. The community is bigger than the mod. Don't you EVER forget that.
@JSR2gamers "This is the kind of thing that will cause runners to delete their runs from your leaderboard"
Couldn't have said it any better! Consider this as my protest. clicks '...', clicks "Delete run"
Had to do it for all my previous runs, but done.
Well the filters DO show on my end when I tilt my mobile horizontally. More likely than not, it's a matter of insufficient screen space for it to show vertically.
Not exactly convenient, I'll admit.
I didn't even think to try that :p
(Tries it)
Oh. My bad. Sorry!
(Edit: deleted old Post, it is obsolete)
I'm not into the whole back and forth arguing where things start to get really heated but I think it shows just how passionate everyone is about seeing the most popular category in the NES tetris leaderboard go away.
It looks like the community wasn't prepared for this consolidation - it's a huge concept that could affect any leaderboard. Imagine if SMB1 boards merged Any% and Warpless but just left a filter option for times with warps and without. It's definitely a radical idea.
Well, it's the holidays, we should be enjoying ourselves and remember the bigger picture in our lives. I don't want to see rifts between people because of this - I just hope we get to see the category come back.
"It's definitely a radical idea"
And I don't think he means that in a "80's video game commercial" kind of way. :P
I'm not sure if you know what ad hominem means? I said what you said about runners was rude and ignorant, then explained exactly what was wrong with the statement.
All of that aside though, maybe a lesson can be learned here. Presjpolk one of the zelda mods posts up on the discord and asks everyone's opinion before doing anything. Maybe that's part of the reason why the zelda community is so strong.
I don't think redbird was trying to be rude, I think he was just making a point. The point is, no one looks at filters except for the runners of the game itself and Most of the time they don't even look at the filters. No one is going to pull up 0 start filter and be like "oh wow drone has a world record that's super impressive!" They are going to think he doesn't have a world record he is just the best at an insignificant category because there is no way for them to know how significant that category actually was.
You can't have a category for every level. However, almost 100 people ran 0 start. That's enough community interest to leave it as its own category.
(Let me holla at the Z-side runnas. Those tets be steppin on our turf yo. Big juzzy needsta start a petition up in here and we gotsa start a riot up in this bizzzzznatch. -real comment heard on the streets of hyrule.) Just a joke, couldn't resist, I'm sorry haha.
Edit: a little mud slinging is healthy. When I was in grade school kids would fight, maybe fight again, but then get over it and become best friends after that. What creates rifts are people feeling like they cant get their opinions out there. People feeling like they cant fight back and get in a low blow of their own.
It shouldn't go on forever, seems like it's gone on long enough. Any more low blows should be thrown now then let's get over it and work out a solution together.
And by together I mean you guys who are passionate. For gods sake I don't even have a time on the board. (LoL) I just want to see drone get his wr back.
I said it before, the the filters are insufficient unless you turn off the setting that runs with different values for the Level Start variable obsolete each other.
With that setting on, then if a person gets a Level 19 run, then his Level 0 run vanishes from the board, since it got obsoleted!
@PresJPolk that's weird, I don't have to change any other option than the level filter, for instance look for me in the 0, 15 and 16. I can see myself there every time without having to touch the obsoleted runs option. It's constantly on "Hidden"
ViruseReturns, I think you are misunderstanding what PresJPolk is explaining. Here is an example:
Acmlm has on this board a 100 lines time of 3:56 with level 18 start. Acmlm has on this board a 100 lines time of 4:03 with level 0 start.
The current leaderboard settings will by default display only Acmlm's 3:56 time with level 18 start. Acmlm's 4:03 time with level 0 start will never become visible to each individual user unless the user specifically selects the Level-0 Starting Level filter from the list or the user specifically changes the Obsoleted Runs filter to "shown".
Here's my issue as a speedrun.com user with this requirement -- even assuming that the average user does like to mess around with the filters in order to get the information they are seeking (which is by a large amount not the case), it is not user-friendly. Every time the leaderboard page is reloaded the filters return to the default settings, not the settings the individual user most recently viewed. At least in Chrome, it is not possible to click on the various fields (such as the video link) in the leaderboard display and open the desired link in a new tab, so the user is constantly funneled into loading an entirely new web page in the same tab or navigating the web page in other inconvenient ways. This makes the filters (of which there are 33) far less desirable to use than the one additional tab requiring one click that every sensible leaderboard uses to sort its categories, which is how the board was organized through even last weekend.
Now, one user preferring 0-start or 19-start runs may be a matter of opinion, as may be preferring how the board is now. But, it is a matter of fact that the majority of the users here prefer 0-start and that they prefer it to have its own tab on the leaderboard without navigating the filters.
