Yo, I had a friend go looking into the IGT to actually figure out how it worked and the results are as follows

• pauses on menus
• doesn't pause on loads (but this isn't as significant as you might think since the door scenes are fixed length and account for almost all of the loading anyway)
• does pause on the final cutscene
• doesn't always pause on unskippable cutscenes, sometimes does, depends on the cutscene, very fun.
• randomly tacks a couple of seconds on after the final cutscene???
• actually starts about 4 seconds before you gain control but way after most people start their timers, convenience thing I guess.

the kicker is the following:

• always runs at 30fps regardless of the game speed, so when your game lags, you lose time.

this gives emulator a distinct wildly unfair advantage from the jump because PSXJin is literally a lagless TAS'ing emulator and this game runs kinda like shit on an actual console. this comes as basically zero surprise to me but hey it might be news to some of y'all. This causes a discrepancy even outside of normal gameplay, because cutscenes lag and some of them count time lol. this is why emulator times consistently seem to have IGTs greater than RTA and console times the reverse, it's a lag thing.

i don't think IGT should even be used or PSXJin but since that's probably asking too much at this point, an emu/console split should suffice.

Aight cool thanks.

not particularly impressed with having my initial thread locked because you inexplicably don't trust my research lol

i'm not incentivized to lie about it man

here are comparison videos from the Crash community about emulators. you can like. pretty visibly see PSXJin goes out of wack with hardware like, instantly.

i'm not saying you have to stop using PSXJin, but if you're going to keep doing it, bunching it in with the console runs is totally insane. It's a well documented problem.

just split it and save hassle

but you're not sharing any results of your own and just saying you're "working on it" and more or less threw a hissy fit at my results because I didn't ask nicely? Like, don't lock the thread on an in-progress discussion, that's rude as hell. Especially since I actually did the research that you apparently wanted in the first place?

bruh I wasn't trying to make it personal but there actually isn't a reason this has to be a process, there's a fairly well established body of evidence from dozens of other communities on this very topic, you're not special. You could in fact, split it instantly.

The "value" is a tricky one because it's not going to be the same across different configurations obviously unless I go pointer hunting and I don't think it's reasonable to ask me or my friend to basically create the tool for you so you specifically can understand it? Comes across a bit entitled, man.

also the specifics of the IGT are kind of secondary to the fact that emu still runs wacky compared to console no matter what timing method you're using and there is a ridiculously large body of evidence to back that up.

So, I'm the tech-inclined friend and I can confirm all the stuff that Punchy said about the IGT, that was all stuff I found. The timer starts when you fade up from black for the first time, a few seconds before you get control, and stops right when you fade to black after the final Hypnos kill.

It does pause during menus, it doesn't pause during door loads, and it doesn't pause during the unskippable cutscenes that I tested out.

The value I isolated is the timer in frames, I know it's the right one because if you divide it by 30 it gives you your exact seconds, and I was able to manipulate it to get it to spit out predictable times (1 seconds for 30, 4 seconds for 120, etc.)

Currently, I think the big discrepancy between RTA and IGT is because it seems to be running at full speed even when your framerate is jacked, because it's running concurrently with whatever's going on in the game, but honestly, that doesn't explain everything, because IGT is still pretty janky even with that.

At this point I can reliably predict what Punchy's discrepancy is going to be, but the discrepancies seem to be individual, since they're at least partially due to menu'ing differences as well. The upshot, though, is that they're very different from Console to Emulator, and if they're different at all, that seems pretty problematic.

Also if you want the memory values, I have them for psxjinv2.0.2:

00000 000C3A90 d s 0 Timer 00001 00000000 S S 0 ---------------------------- 00002 00063454 d s 0 Timer

You can load those into Memwatch to see for yourself, but they won't work in CE, because the values are in the RAM of the emulator

And in Bizhawk2.4 it's..

7FFC34E60CD4, which works just fine in CE.

I mean you know, we can all look back and say what could've caused it not to escalate in the first place. I think probably not accusing someone of being a liar would've helped with that as well ;P

He didn't post the values because he didn't have them, he was just relaying my findings, and I was obviously more than happy to post them once I saw the thread. Hopefully it helps clear things up.

i don't get what you mean by "hopefully this is resolved soon". you're the person who resolves it. we've kinda given you the evidence.

"So sorry if it takes a little bit longer than what suits you,"

6 years is quite a long time. Especially for a Resident Evil (spinoff) game, especially considering your community is usually ontop of this stuff.

Edit: Cause it's not worth writing another post as a reply. My point is more of a reflection to all moderators to this title not just you.

So stop saying "your liking" or "your standings" or whatever "your <combination>" you use. Cause common sense should've avoided this from the beginning before you were moderator.

It's not harassment if your attitude towards others comes off so poor with the "your <combination>" comments come off without any care towards anyone with tactless comments. You're actually more or less distancing yourself by acting as if you're better than everyone else.

If you want to talk about harassment then you should probably figure out how that term actually applies to this entire thread and yourself before you assume it applies to you. Cause spoiler alert it doesn't. This is nowhere near borderline harassment either.

If you want to respond back about this be my guest. But let me preface with this. You're wrong with what you're assuming and what you're showing especially when you locked the other thread for no logical reason.

This is my note for you. Don't pull another "harassment card" or something similar out again, you'll only distance yourself more by acting falsely.

Now go back at the topic at hand before you get egg on your face.

Edit: Per the 2nd page, second point comment by Zooball. This statement has been mentioned several times in this thread even in this comment.

None of this would be happening if Smokethebear didn't lock the original thread. We all understand the concept of time, we all understand that it wouldn't take a day if you want to do the same research to find the same results, but someone thought it would be a great idea to kill a topic midway through discussion for no logical or decent reason that's why this topic is called "don't lock the thread, dumbass".

Also great job playing that card again Smokethebear. You truly are showing that you aren't fit for moderation. That's not an attack, that's a fact so you better not read this the wrong way since you clearly glossed over my comments.

That moderation you hold should be going to someone else like Zooball (for their great calm down post, everything can be assessed and weighing everything in a single post) or Punchy (Person who can give you real world examples that you've dismissed for whatever reason).

Neither of them would prematurely kill a thread for no reason and they are both taking account of everything and have better understanding while not distancing them from others.

And neither of them would be claiming "harassment".

Just because you're first place doesn't mean you should be acting like this.

This will be my last post/edit unless something happens.

I think first off everyone needs to stop and reflect on is it really worth getting this stressed out and antagonistic over an RE game that is pretty marginal and unimportant in the grand scheme of speedrunning (which arguably isn't the most important thing in the grand scheme of things generally). Just start over and chalk it up to miscommunication cos it's really not worth the agro.

Secondly, the fact this always has been a marginal game is shown in the lack of testing into IGT, response times of mods/runners, rule changes etc. People have got other shit to do and there hasn't been the incentive to pour hours into the game as the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I'm sure this could change if the game gets more popular but obviously not going to happen overnight and don't really get what the rush is, everyone just run console or emu while waiting for the desired outcome to happen.

Thirdly, I'm pretty sure every serious runner of this game knows how fucked the IGT time is so its not a case of stupidity or ignorance. PSXjin was chosen so that everyone would have a level playing field as at the time no one ran on console. I understand that gives console runners a disadvantage and if there are more console runners I would personally support splitting the boards, but I wouldn't expect that to happen overnight.

Enjoy the blog post guys

So here are three quick facts about the IGT that I think support using RTA or at least splitting things out:

1. everyone starts their timers 20-30 seconds before IGT starts

2. everyone stops their timer 90-120 seconds after IGT ends

3. IGT pauses during menus.

When you combine all of that RTA should actually be several minutes longer than IGT, but that’s clearly not the case.

I hope your testing yielded the same results mine did: that IGT seems heavily tied to frame rate, something no one has any real control over, and something you can’t reliably predict with regards to IGT.

Also, in the spirit of cooperation, I’d appreciate if you’d post what your findings were here, in the same way that you asked me to do that.

The IGT being tied to frame rate is something that has always been known with this game because just like RE2 PAL it can be the fastest IGT run by minutes due to the frame rate change and the timer not compensating for it. A lot of stuff in this game was borrow from RE2 so that shouldn't be any surprise.

Now for anyone saying the IGT is "broken" I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion because if anything this frame rate timer is actually the most fair timer to use, game slows down? So does the timer. And it's possible to output frame based timers into livesplit to give the accurate time and yes, they are accurate.

I'm not really active on speedrun.com or this game anymore so I'm not sure my opinion really counts for much, but we're all adults here and basic discussions don't need to turn into arguments every time people are in disagreement about something.

Quite frankly, this game hadn't been researched into that deeply. It's never really had more than about 3 active runners at a time, and for the most part everyone ran on emulator. PSXJin was chosen basically over EPSXE for a thread of consistency through emulator runs without much regard for console runs (as there have never really been that many active console runners, not that this is ever an excuse for disregarding actual hardware). I have ran this game on console before and it's offputting because I always felt the loads were slower and personally suffered huge slowdowns and lag, but I wasn't in any position/lacked motivation to research into how the loads and slowdowns affected the IGT so I didn't encourage any discussion on it at the time.

I'm for separating EMU/Console if there is a significant difference in IGT. If it encourages fairness and for more people to run on original hardware I think that can only ever be a good thing. I do, however, also want the other mods/community to have at least a general sense of agreement on what changes are to be made.

Okay so I went ahead and added emulator vs console as subcategories to test the water for now. If we don't like this we can change it back and/or edit the subcategory names. I'm not fully literate in speedrun.com tech either so if I've made any mistakes, mods feel free to edit/look over/re-do/revert the changes.

I think this is fine for the time being though?

Sweet, thanks.

Any reason emulator is listed first out of the two when proven to be inaccurate?

Surely you should be pushing people to run on the accurate hardware