100%, IL's and Oblivion Questions
9 years ago
New South Wales, Australia

This is a game I've had some interest in running in the past and thought about some of what would be required for 100% and different thoughts on other categories and what not.

As far as I know any% doesn't collect all of the talisman because of The Eye of Truth is skipped so all talisman would need collected. I'd also assume that collecting all of the parts for nuke would be included as well which will mean for 100% all weapons are required. Again I think up until this point all weapons except for the nuke are collected during a standard any% run. So unless I am forgetting something 100% would require all Talisman/Feathers and all guns/Nuke.

My additional thoughts are about the Oblivion portals and their inclusion in IL's or even as separate IL's on their own. I could imagine that doing Oblivion portals would be quite fun as you are required to kill all enemies so they strategy would be quite different from standing IL's any% strats.

Québec

I wrote up a quick definition of 100% in the rules section but I will precise that the inventory screen has to be complete (i.e. all talismans, all keys, nuke weapon). As for weapons I think the Tranquilizer can be skipped very easily and I am not sure whether or not it should be considered as progress and completion but I wouldn't mind either way, all weapons or just completing the inventory screen.

As for ILs, the problem with the oblivion portals is that if you are going to include these as part of a 100% mindset (which I understand, 100% vs any% ILs), you would also collect all the level keys, the talisman, etc. and the Primagen Key. That one is a problem, because it requires the use of talismans from later levels in order to be collected (when no sequence breaking is possible). Take Port of Adia for instance: you would have to go to River of Souls and get the Leap of Faith and then come back to get the Primagen Key. Would that count against your time? I see a number of ways to address the issue.

  1. Do not count the primagen keys as 100% of an IL. Arbitrary but understandable, would fix the issue and let you just get everything that you can in one go.
  2. Only count the primagen keys that are possible to get without leaving the level. This includes doing levels out of order to have the right talisman (Lair of the Blind Ones after Hive of the Mantids comes to mind) and glitching (Hive, River of Souls). This one seems even more arbitrary to me, and I wouldn't like that option so much.
  3. Use cheats to unlock all talismans in advance (meh).
  4. Use cheats to enable teleporting straight to the levels that would get you the talisman you need for the primagen key, grab the talisman over there, and then warp to the IL you want to do, save your game after the intro cutscene and use that save to do IL attempts. This one is a bit farfetched but it would let you 100% ILs in one go.

That being said, I'd also like to discuss how IL running should be done in my opinion. The best way to do IL attempts is to play the game however you want until you reach that level. From there, watch the intro cutscene (with mission objectives and such) and then immediately save your game. That save can be used and timing starts upon gaining control at the start of the mission. As long as you save immediately after the cutscene, I would consider that to be exactly equivalent to doing it "from scratch", where you enter the level from the Hub and watch the cutscene.

Why do this? Because it lets you reset using a quick pause and load instead of having to watch that cutscene every single time. Also, I feel like timing from gaining control to losing control instead of timing from entering the level portal in the hub gives a better measure of the actual run time, instead of having this flat +1:30 that comes from the first cutscene.

Another implication of this is that you can get weapons from later levels by playing them out of order (without proper sequence breaking since the game basically lets you do that). So, if you wish, you can play River of Souls with the Hive of the Mantids weapons. This means the level save file can take a while to setup if you really want the best weapons you can possibly have at the time, requiring you to do 1-3-5-2 for RoS, 1-2-4-3 for DM, 1-3-5-2-4 for LotBO and 1-2-4-3-5 for the Hive (or minor variations of those). I am not completely happy with that personally but I still believe it is a good way to approach ILs.

I'd also like to mention that I am currently working on getting good times for "actual" ILs, because my old times were based on a normal run but limited timing to the ILs. I would get the level keys, primagen keys when I could, and talismans in all the levels. I realized that if you really want to do pure ILs, you would only complete the mission objective and that's it. While it's not a viable strategy in normal play (you get stuck in the hub unable to open anything), I think ILs should be played that way because any% is any%, the goal is to beat that individual mission's objectives with any amount of completion.

Edit: I'll also add that I'm glad you have interest in playing the game, and I really look forward to seeing a bit of competition. I'll be probably doing mostly ILs because the PC port is very unstable on win7 and I can't get my game to run properly enough to run any% (I get softlocks and crashes and weird shit all the time in LotBO and the Hive).

Texas, USA

I would like to know what the rules are for this game. the rules say that they have not been defined.

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