Switch version
5 years ago
California, USA

Hey there! I decided to pick up the Switch version finally and give it a go myself. I think I just came up with a slight improvement for the any% route, based on a mistake I made practicing the tiny ancient frog:

  • At the beginning, skip the tiny frog; do giant and then lava instead
  • After the lava frog is captured, leave via flight song (saves time climbing the ladder and dropping into the hole)
  • Fly back to the beginning of the game; go do tiny frog (slight time loss on the flight movement)
  • After tiny frog, get sucked into the grate to go to the red crystal
  • Walk left off the tiny frog's platform, which puts you on solid ground right next to the bird nest (saves time waiting to get picked up in the clouds by the bird)
  • Fly from here to the normal place to continue the run

I think this'll save 10-20 seconds or so. Problem: it puts hcfwesker's awful bird manipulation in the tiny frog area (sorry, I've been practicing it for like 2 hours and it sucks so bad lmao) deeper in the run, so it might become a bit more reset-heavy.

(edit) Actually...I think we can just do tiny first and do the crystal area from there? Then do giant and lava and fly back to do the rest. I just confirmed that visiting the crystal with only tiny collected activates the first mole hill, but I'm still testing the rest.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
California, USA

Yeah, ok, way simpler route change. Go into the hole after tiny frog. Don't go into the hole after lava. All mole hills will be open. I think this also means you can do either lava or upside-down first and it shouldn't matter? Since you can fly out of both areas. Will have to think about it.

(edit) I think the flight distance from both lava frog and upside-down frog to reach the branch point between their respective paths is equivalent.

(edit 2) I am deeply smart and I see that Waarschijn already figured this out:

"By the way, the reason we did the upside-down frog in any% last was because its portal doesn't have a checkpoint nearby, so we can't easily warp. On the Switch you can do tiny frog last if you want. Or do tiny frog first, go through its portal to activate the molehills, then get invisible and upside-down, and then get huge and lava. It shouldn't matter for time."

Turns out it does matter for time, because the shorter visit to the red crystal after tiny frog and not having to traverse the ladders at lava frog are decent amounts of time save. But yeah, if you do tiny first and take the pipe, you can probably do either the lava path or the upside-down path first and it's probably time-neutral. Actually, maybe you specifically want to do the upside-down path first to get the more difficult puzzles like 2 frogs 1 block out of the way?

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

Hi, welcome back to this game!

Have you confirmed that it is actually necessary to drop down after going through one of the frogpipes? I assumed that being in the crystal area is enough to activate the molehills AND that the birdsong works from the pipe platforms. (I don't plan on buying a Switch to test this.)

The problem with the lava frog is that you need to stomp twice to move the green bamboo poles if you want to climb that ladder. But then the frog croaks twice, and you'll actually have to wait for him before dropping into the pipe. So yeah, either way it's faster to use the eagle (or to do lava last).

A thing that requires testing: I think that the game registers each ancient frog to be teleported as soon as the door opening animation starts. So there is room for optimizing the eagle pickup timing. (In testing, you can use the pause menu to check the frog status.)

California, USA

Yeah, you can't take off from the red crystal area until you walk to the left and activate the obelisk, I attempted from all points before that. With lava frog, on Switch version you can definitely just stomp the pole and let the frog go, then fly away immediately.

I vaguely tested how soon the frog counts as collected on the PC version the other day. It's not quite as early as the door opening starting, but it's pretty early. If you do the proposed route of tiny first and visit the red crystal, then you can just let yourself get sucked in with the tiny frog there. For the other ones, it's probably better to err on the side of caution, but I'm sure you can save a second or two here or there if you're willing to be more risky.

California, USA

In my chat today, waarschijn hypothesized that you can do the tiny frog puzzle without stomping down another slug. I tested it and it does work. Should save about 7 seconds there.

California, USA

I'm so sorry. My brain keeps thinking about this game and I can't stop it.

In the tiny frog area, near the three-bird puzzle, there's a mole hill. That mole hill goes back to near the entrance, where there is a door. That door leads to an area normally used only in 99% runs. If you take a couple quick bird rides, you end up to the left of the obelisk that we skip using the nearby teleporter (the one that waarschijn used for return travel after giant frog in his PB).

I think this might be a viable reroute option for any%. If you take this path, you bypass the slightly slow first room (I think it's just shy of 2 minutes long) and the dumb birds hovering over the cut grass right after it. However, going this way might mean you don't take the tiny frog's pipe, forcing you back to taking the lava frog pipe.

Alternatively, you could activate the obelisk in the tiny frog area, take the tiny frog pipe, but then fly back to the tiny frog area to use the mole hill and take the door. I think this probably isn't the way to go, though, since it adds a lot of extra movement on top of the route deviation.

Another thought I have is that this route might specifically only be faster on the PC version, since you need to take the lava frog pipe there anyway. All this needs to be timed, but I figured I should just post this here and see if you (either of the two of you) have any thoughts.

(edit) craaaaaap you can't get back from the teleporter area here to the right to actually reach the birds/cut grass area because of a wall

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

Haha, I have made the exact same mistake earlier in this thread (if you can find it). I've timed the molehill strat you mentioned, but it ends up being slower. Instead of using the molehill you can also use the level reset feature. I haven't timed that either, but I'm pretty sure it's slower as well. Exactly because the map can be divided into a left side and a right side, and there are three "bridges", but two of them are one-way only. So there is no way around having to do the long tutorial section...

...unless you have the golden wings. Which caused me to think of a "NG+" meme category, where you start with the wings and only have to get the 5 frogs.

Good to know, that 7 sec timesave. There are still some riskier/luck-based strats towards the lava section, in the area with the electric slugs and lizard, and 2frogs1block can be sped up by timing the berry stomp instead of force-feeding him, but that's also risky and dependent on frog RNG.

United States

Yoooo, welcome back! I've been doing some things offline and probably gonna come back to clean up my 99% run. Nice finds. I considered going into tiny frog portal at the start for the quicker fall in the red crystal area ... but since it was a switch exclusive thing I just held off on it. But now we have more switch runners it's fair game xD.

And ya, you'll see me in this thread coming up with different theories only to be bamboozled in routing that denies those.

And, sorry for the dumb bird strat at tiny frog lol ... but my goodness what a time save. Gonna go watch your run now and see what all new is going down, GG on new world record! And gonna check out your other clip in the other thread you posted on the door entrance manip.

California, USA

I pretty much haven't come up with anything new other than actually taking advantage of the Switch differences to use the tiny frog pipe. Almost all of my time save just came from the stuff you guys came up with, so cheers to both of you. My sum of best after everything (including the 7 seconds from skipping a slug on tiny frog) is 36:00, so I definitely think low 36 is in reach and a 35 might barely be possible on Switch.

United States

Oh, ok. And ya, I wondered on the other route to Large frog during my 99% endeavors and that obelisk not being activated to get to waterfall cave still makes me sad :( Just tried the tiny frog strat without the second bug and works. I just stomp again right as im about to touch the block to keep the frog in place before making my way full left. ( now I think about it, lol, the same exact setup as before, just dont bother knocking down a 2nd bug ) Also, the timing I have found out is the moment the frog's body touches any part of the open portal. Least that's from my testing the Reset Level option with Large frog over and over. But you can play the song earlier since there's a delay waiting to get snagged up. I would dare say the moment Lave frog is out of your chirp range should be good enough timing.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
California, USA

Yeah, that's what I've been doing for lava frog, as soon as he leaves chirp range. Sadly the chirp range is huge.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
United States

Good lord. Forgot about this one I uploaded a few months back. The movement (and recording) is sloppy cause I was just trying to get it done and recorded. But as you see, setting upsidedown frog for another bug allows you to handle both portal movements in one go, saving roughly 3-4 seconds, i'm guessing.

again excuse the quality ...

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Vulajin likes this
California, USA

With that setup you may even be able to stomp the second slug immediately after he spawns, it looks like he'll just pop up right on top of the frog and get eaten instantly. (Or did you already try that and the bubble maybe picks up the slug instead?)

United States

I'd have to remember why, but there was a specific reason why i want that bug to pop up where it does. Either having to do with the distance the portal can reach to the left, or the bug getting bounced into the bubble before the bubble takes me with it.

Netherlands

Great find! Bubbles should prioritize Toki Tori in the Switch version, although this change seems to be implemented in a weird way:

California, USA

Random tiny optimization for that same room: when you stomp to push the crab block, push him far enough that his right edge lines up with the edge of the ledge just above it. This will cut down on one extra jump for the upside-down frog, saving something like a second.

United States

So, one of my most hated spots late game, usually screw it up from time to time, I have found a completely consistent setup, and is faster since it sets the glowflies where you need them, allowing you to just proceed right once you pop the bubble ( no need to chirp and wait). VERY VERY minute timesave, i know, but just trying to optimize little things while looking for bigger things xD

And this catapult bubble was somethin new to me :D

I'm also considering a route divergence which I'll test and time at some point once I get the rust off. From a routing decision in my 99% run, considering doing Tiny, Invisible, UpsideDown, Large, then Lava last. The water grass growing birds section, just head straight onto waterfall first trip, so you can warp back, and catch the bird's attention while falling back into the area ( rather than chirping and leading it through the grass to spot you the first trip). Since you warp back here later, anyway, might as well make the most of it, time wise. As I said, it's just a theory, and we're talking mayyybe 3-4 seconds timesave, if it even is a viable route option.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
United States

Welp, happened in one of my test runs which was a goood run, this split woulda been another 90 second timesave, with around 25 to save in Lava area i screwed up on my 1st attempt at this route. So ya, if the Invisi frog is within that step ledge's width, wait for the 2nd bug to go just a tad right before stomping it. Knew there was a reason i cautiously went a little right. Don't let this happen to you :(

Also, this strat is so fast, you end up 13 seconds ahead of the frog lmao, so that's useless xD

California, USA

Coming back to version differences...at the moment all I can think of that affects the run so far is the following:

  • There's an extra block outside the giant frog area on the Switch version. This costs a few seconds.
  • There's a preloaded frog and a firefly to make the invisible frog area easier.
  • You can fly out of the lava frog area, allowing usage of the tiny frog pipe instead of the lava frog pipe.
  • You can move through exploding electric slugs immediately rather than waiting. (Or is this in the newest PC version?)

The tiny frog pipe vs lava frog pipe difference is actually only about 13 seconds. Between all the other things it's probably like a 15-20ish second total advantage?

Netherlands
  • There is an extra obelisk toward the lava area (before the puddle with the 5 electric slugs).
  • Birds are no longer stunned when you stomp near them.
  • Bubbles prioritize Toki Tori.
  • The tiny frog platform is smaller and there is no hole and horizontal ladder (not sure if this actually matters for time).

(There are also lots of small changes that don't matter for any%.)

Using the lava frog's pipe is already ~12s for the bird. Then using the eagle song from the obelisk instead of the checkpoint to the far left is another ~10s walking time saved. Then because of the route change, a later bird lure is faster. And the caged firefly is also pretty big, because on PC you have to drop the light bug so the frog eats it, make him burp, reposition the firebug, etc. all before you can start walking left. The Switch advantage is definitely more than 20s total.

Game stats
Followers
13
Runs
18
Players
3
Recent runs
Latest threads
Posted 9 months ago
0 replies
Posted 1 year ago
76 replies
Posted 2 years ago
9 replies
Posted 2 years ago
0 replies
Posted 2 years ago
2 replies
Posted 3 years ago
2 replies