I mentioned earlier they wouldn't hurt anyone being on the leaderbords simply because they exist. I have never seen an all signs run, probably because no one has ever tried or thought about it. When I say "most popular" I mean that people have shown an interest in actually trying or caring about the category.

No one has run All Signs to my knowledge, though many ILs have been done. Many people have run 100 Unique Lives, BST, MST, 22 star, etc. Are you okay with those categories or not?

I'm not disregarding the all signs community or the moat% community, because they don't exist. Some people like the "popular ones" like 31 star, 45 star, etc lol.

I don't know how else to ask this question, so I'm just going to repeat it until you answer it.

Many people have done runs of meme categories such as 100 Unique Lives, MST, BST, 22 star, etc. Are you okay with these runs being on the leaderboard or not?

I'm just saying most speedgames have misc categories and they have found ways to not add every meme category there is, so mods or whoever should decide which misc categories deserve to be on the leaderbords, although like I mentioned 31 star, 45 star and all coins would be nice additions in my opinion, but it's not up to me. I would not be upset if any of those categories become misc because I truly believe they don't hurt anyone being there.

"I'm just saying most speedgames have misc categories and they have found ways to not add every meme category there is"

Well, I hope you and others are beginning to understand why expecting every speedgame to abide by the same rules/traditions is impractical. It's because not every speedgame is the same. If other games can get away with adding misc. categories and not having 1000 stupid additions, then that's great for them, but unfortunately SM64 is not in that position. Many, many dumb categories have been ran over the years.

If popularity is not the criteria we should use to determine which categories are run, then both of us seem to be at a loss as to what criteria should be used. If popularity is the criteria we use, then I don't believe that 45/31 etc would make the cut.

I guess it's time for the mods to decide what misc categories will or should become legit (as legit as being a misc on the leaderbords) then to finally end the conversation. :p

But it's not fine for the mods to decide that they'd rather not bother with having unpopular, inactive leaderboards and just doing away with misc. altogether....

If the decision on whether we should make any misc categories again can't be solved, it's time to look at the 16 star and 1 star situation. Come on guys, we have to admit finally that 16 star isn't a real category anymore and 1 star is pointless, if anything is becoming misc it should be 16 and 1 star. (If you wanna read more about my opinion read my second post on this thread.)

The current criteria the leaderboards use is based on popularity. The 5 categories we have are by far the most popular. Yes, 16 star is extremely arbitrary, but (again) it is one of the most popular speedruns of ¤any¤ game.

1 star is even sillier than 16, and I was in favor of removing or making it misc. until I saw that it's also very popular. There are 81 1 star runs on N64.

I don't see any reason to make either of these categories misc. What benefit does it add to our leaderboards? I can't think of a single positive in making that change. Even though both are silly, they are also competitive and popular categories.

I agree with adding a misc tab. its causing no harm, its a small tab that will cause little clutter. I think having them on the boards will increase the popularity and possibly get people to start running them. It could also lead to someone perhaps making a routing guide for it, which would increase its popularity even more I think. It doesn't even have to be from people already running, remember we're on the front page of this website. People coming in from here will most likely only think of the categories we have and not on another website. They will also see that we feel the need to list them under misc, and respect our main categories still the same. When I check out other games, I don't think about categories they have with the times posted on some other website that I found in their resources.

Its a hard debate to move some of the things we already have on the leaderboards to the misc tab. Will all legacy categories be moved? If that's the case then that would mean not just 1 star but 16 star, which is our most ran category to my knowledge. Also what about 70? Its our 'no major skips' category, would that also be considered arbitrary compared to 100% and any%? Personally I think our current main tabs should stay, they will always outshine any misc category we have.

Bebop, as for what misc categories should be added I think it would be a good idea to start with 31 & 45 star for now. Moving onward, if runners think other categories should be added popularity and perhaps discussion could take place on if they should be added or not.

Like I said earlier 1 star is basically 0 star but they accidentally didn't get DDD skip. They should be combined. Like 16 star allows 17 stars by accidentally getting the mips star.

Is this even true? I thought 1 star was an any% category before DDD skip was found? If this is the case, they are two different categories, and merging 1 star into 0 star would kill the accuracy of our any% category.

If you enter DDD you didn't do the BLJ well enough, it's not the categories fault if you lose a few mins due to this mistake. If you get an extra star in 16 star (the mips star usually) they allow you to submit that run to the 16 star leaderbords. 1 star is just for people not dedicated enough to reset until you get DDD skip.

0 star = any%. Meaning beat the game as fast as possible without any restrictions. It doesn't matter if you have 0 or 1 stars, it's still the only correct "any%" category. 1 star should be called any% (missed ddd skip) then?

By that logic 16 star is still any% with 16 extra stars. DDD skip is another variable to the run that makes it different.

Lol that's correct, every single run of any game that is not a misc category finishes the game so they can be submitted to the any% leaderbords. Since we are speedrunners and don't do silly things like that, we don't need to worry.

The fact is the only categories that should exist outside miscs are: 120 star (100%), 70 star (any% no major glitches), and 0 star (any%).

As long as they have to be accessed via misc. dropdown menu, I say why not

yeah, with the whole "misc. categories" dropdown menu, i really don't see how much more out of the way you could get the categories to be, outside of making a whole new game called "SM64 Misc. Categories"