Are we currently allowing the use of underclocking/overclocking mid run? Is this something which is banned in most communities? If it isn't, and nearly everyone agrees it shouldn't be banned in this community as a whole, is this not basically going to give the same results that an FPS limiter would? Have the two functions become so close in terms of the what they accomplish, that it's clear each should be allowed? Or should we ban one while allowing the other, despite the irony, and pretend an actual point has been made?

You are talking about common sense and the common sense for pretty much every game is does it give an advatage over people who don't use it

You do 2 runs. They have the exact same rng you have a good day and get perfect execution both runs. In one of these runs you under/overclock via hotkey. Which run will have a better time? Since both had the exact same execution and rng, is the run with the lower time really better than the other?

What if you have 2 runners. Runner A didn't alter his fps. B did and has a time that is a few seconds lower. But B died in shootouts in his run and flipped cars, while A didn't. Is B the better gta speedrunner because his time is lower even though he is clearly worse at what gta is about, driving and shooting?

The case for does it give an adavantage is not even exclusive to speedrunning. For example esport. You can't use a wallhack or radar in csgo to see where the opponnents are even though there soundcards on the market that promise such a feature. Or aimbots are programmed into the internal memory of a mouse and work via plug and play.

Even going to regular sports. Did you see how many rules and limitations there are in F1 or other racing to reduce the effect of technology to have it come down to the driving skill?

PC speedrunning, for the most part, can never be 100% equal simply due to hardware. The point has already been made that FPS limiting is literally no different than many other things which are allowed, so I'm not going to keep repeating myself when it comes to that. Of course one of the runs will be faster than the other, because in that run the player utilized strategy/functionality which should be a part of the run, while the other run didn't.

The GTA IV speedrun can never be on a 100% equal playing field for a couple reasons:

1. Everyone doesn't use the same hardware. Control and FPS are the main aspects of hardware. (and this transitions into #2 below).
2. There are many different refresh rates to lock your FPS to with the in-game vsync, depending on your hardware. Unrelated to that, some players can't get above 45 FPS, some 35, some 30. Are we all going to lock our FPS at 25 with an external limiter for the entire run to get closer to an equal playing field?

Forget all the issues people have with v-sync, none of that matters, because of #2 above. It's clear, 100% clear, that the IV community will never have a rule which requires everyone to play at the same FPS throughout the run. It'd be asinine. It doesn't make sense, it wouldn't even work.

Frame limiting should be allowed. Underclocking should be allowed. I've made a ton of good points as to why. As I sit here, I don't feel the need to make any more. With that said, these things are aspects of this run that should have always been aspects of this run, we just didn't realize it until now. Even the guy getting no more than 35 FPS at any time can utilize either of these in the same exact way someone getting over 120 FPS can. No one is at any more or less of an advantage, unless they flat out refuse to utilize part of the strategy.

In that case, I change my vote to A), atleast it would make the playing field a bit similar to those, who use an external software.

Kyle i think we are drifting apart in what we are saying.

This poll is about a rule change and my main complaint with A is what gets written as new rule above the leaderboard. It's clear with B but not with A. Rules need to be clear for everyone. Not just from your own perspective as somebody with 1000+ hours of speedrunning gta4.

For example. In 3 weeks is agdq. Somebody sees speedruns for the first time in his life and decides to run his fav game gta4. And all he reads is the rules. He might understand something different than you. And then when he submits a run it does not meet up with the expectations of the mod. Drama ensured.

You say common sense has to be applied, but did you look at paragraph 2 of the rules? That is something that I would call common sense and yet there are many people who believe a run is invalid if there is no timer running in the video or if you split wrong. So it is a good thing to keep it. No drama. What is common sense to me, doesn't apply to everybody and i can accept that.

I'm not pro or against framelimiting. I am against unclear rules. Unclear rules cause drama and confusion. We had that the last couple of weeks because the rules are not clear in this regard. That has to change.

b

The rules would state:

¤Any and all tactics used to achieve a higher/lower frame rate are allowed to be used prior to the run beginning, as well as during the run (hotkey toggling on/off; overclocking, underclocking, frame limiting, resource intensive processes, etc.), as long as the game's files are not modified in the process. See these threads to for reasoning and backstory: http://goo.gl/VzPolp - http://goo.gl/yDwzvN - http://goo.gl/wrXQeP

My decision to vote for C doesn't sit right with me since it's not actually an option, so I want to go back to my previous decision of not voting at all.

Voting has ended: A received 7. B received 4.

The following will be added to the rules: (Any and all tactics used to achieve a higher/lower frame rate are allowed to be used prior to the run beginning, as well as during the run (hotkey toggling on/off; overclocking, underclocking, frame limiting, resource intensive processes, etc.), as long as the game's files are not modified in the process.)

Any modifications necessary?

I still think there doesn't need to be a rule added. But hey if it makes stuff clear, why not.

I don't wanna be that guy who says "WE SHOULD ADD LOTS OF VARIABLES" but do you guys think there should be a variable for when you submit a time that is a simple YES or NO, "Did you use any 3rd party software to limit frame rate?"

idk I feel it is important to know for the leaderboard tbh

No i don't see that reason.

People don't put "DUPING YES or NO" in the leaderboard as well. No reason to make stuff more complicated then it really is.

No, in my eyes, this is something which should obviously be allowed for PC speedrunning, for all games, and shouldn't be singled out. These things are functions of the console which aren't modifying the game's files. It'd be like adding a variable for "Did you stream this run from the same PC that the game was running on?".

How does it make it more complicated exactly? The reason why this is important is the same reason we have version different for VC, int vs japanese version. The same reason we had runner say what frame rate they have on SA (when that was a thing).

Other PC games have these kind of variables for third party software and I don't think hurts it in anyway?

It's not needed. Every last person speedrunning on PC can do this. No one is at any more of an advantage than anyone else. It doesn't need singled out any more so than the use of programmable mouse buttons and DPI changes, mid run, do.

That suggestion is good odyssic. I don't know why i didn't think about that earlier.

It's true that it's a thing that you can do on every PC, but I think the reasoning behind this is different from what you think Kyle.

It's more for a future reference for runs. If you want to check a run on the leaderboard to see certain strategies used and maybe compare timings with your own you want as much information as possible. You can easily tell if a runner duped because it uses a completly different route. But noticing fps toggling is a more difficult. Right now you could just ask a runner about what he did in certain parts and if he is not a dick about it, he would tell you. But the leaderboard is also an archive and if somebody goes inactive that knowledge is lost.

It's not about calling out people for using something or not. Things that are not obvious to see should be disclosed, otherwise it is holding back the community as a whole. Hiding strats is not a good thing, even without evil intend, since sharing stuff is what makes speedrunning a game better for everyone.

Hiding or leaving out information is counter-intuitive to the leaderboard is an archive concept.

Reminder this should still be added, I'm sure even Kyle without knowing it wants this variable to be on the leaderboard because "(frame limiting wasn't used)" was included in the comment of his new PB. It really should be added.