Various versions
4 years ago
Fyn, Denmark

I've known this game since I was a little kid and recently tried it again - and I enjoy it so much!

Now that I'm older, I started thinking it would be fun to see how fast I could complete it, and luckily I stumpled upon this page. It was fun watching how fast it could be done - and I still think about doing it myself.

I was however a bit confused when I watched the speedrun by at least Tiltustratel - since there was a maze that for some reason is not i my (Danish) version of the game. When some versions enters the maze mine simply skip directly to the "Final hit". I think it might be because mine is a newer version of the game, but I'm not sure. I do however remember the maze a bit from back when I was a kid (I'm however not sure if it was the same exact CD as I'm using now - if it is, it might be some config?).

Furthermore I think it might be worth considering if it possible to figure out the difference between the Danish version and the English version - one of them should in theory be faster to complete since the sound-pieces simply are shorter.

But it's really cool you guys have been speedrunning this awesome game!

Tiltustratel likes this
New Zealand

First off, welcome! Was a pleasant surprise to see a message was posted here. :-)

That's interesting, I've never heard of any versions of the game not having the maze, I've played the game in various languages using both the original (english) CD that I had as a kid and a danish ISO from the web, I'll look into this when I get home in a couple of hours because I would be ecstatic if there was a way to skip the maze!

I agree with checking out the dialogue differences, I've also been meaning to try this myself to see which are faster or slower, if at all. I did notice that when playing the English version some time ago that some lines were cut off too early - perhaps the game simply has a set number of seconds to play each sound for? Either way would be a good thing to research.

Feel free to start learning the route, I have a document on my PC at home that has a step-by-step for the current fastest known route, I'll try adding it to the resources section. :)

Anigif likes this
Fyn, Denmark

Thanks! I think it's awesome you've put up guides and hints so others can participate easily rather than everyone is keeping up their secrets - and I would love to help if I can (and have the time for it).

I'm also quite puzzled about the maze. I'm quite sure it is somehow meant to be there (we were confused about where also the teeth all of a sudden came from) and I just tried to look into the data-files, there was mentioned the fact that you cannot save while you're in the maze. When showing properties for my exe-file the version number is 1.2.3.1 - maybe that helps?

The mechanics regarding sound and flow seems quite simply so I wouldn't be surprised if they were cut of here and there. When I first tried installing it again I wanted to do it in a Virtual Box (since I've previously have had some issues running the game in a Windows version newer than XP) and it had some issues with the sound - the "funny" part was that the game seemed stuck when the sound couldn't continue - I guess the game waited for the sound to complete? (Regarding the maze, I skipped the Virtual Box again - I experienced the missing maze when playing via Windows 10)

New Zealand

Yeah for sure, I'm trying to make it as accessible as possible for any new runners since this is a pretty obscure game!

I'm curious, inside your game folder do you have a 'lab' folder? That is where all of the video files for the maze are stored. Also that is very interesting, the exe for my version of the game says 1.1.1.0, I wonder what the difference between the two versions is? I doubt they would have completely removed the maze from the game between versions 1.1 and 1.2 but I feel as though the game would simply crash if it was an error, rather than skipping it entirely.

Also with the sound I noticed that too, the game completely locks up if a sound cannot play, good programming right there haha

Fyn, Denmark

That's really nice! I hope I can also participate in some way. I think it was fun completing now, but this is a way it might make sense to keep playing it.

I don't have the lab-folder! But agree, I think the maze would be a weird part to remove completely - since you can get confused about the teeths. On the other hand maybe it was too hard/confusing and the only thing that maybe could be removed? (I don't think you could remove any rooms from the castle without having to re-program the game?) But maybe the fallback was to skip it instead of crashing. This is all the files I have: mm2.dat (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 80.490.872 bytes) mm2.idx (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 17.260 bytes) mm2dk.hlp (edited 04-03-2005 15:01, 62.619 bytes) mm2run.exe (edited 19-02-2006 14:33, 868.352 bytes) UI.ICO (edited 18-08-2000 10:58, 766 bytes) DK/mm2lng.dat (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 104.223.794 bytes) DK/mm2lng.idx (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 15.612 bytes)

I think it's interesting that the exe-file has been edited in 2006. I'm not sure if the game I have is from around 2006 (I need to check when I get back home again), but I guess so since the file was edited at that time.

I guess it was a simple way to create a game back then - I don't think the budget for a small Danish game has been the largest.

New Zealand

Awesome! The only issue I can see is that so far I've only ever found versions (including videos on youtube) that include the maze, so we may have to make a second leaderboard or something called 'mazeless' alongside the regular any% unless a version like yours can be found easily accessible.

That's really interesting, all of the files in my copy are from 1997 exactly, here are all of the ones in my folder:

  • /Lab (Folder contains many videos labeled Lab1_a1b1, Lab1_a1b2, etc)
  • anaya.avi (The 'Anaya' logo when you boot the game)
  • mm2.dat (The main game data)
  • mm2.idx
  • mm2gb.dat (English audio)
  • mm2gb.idx
  • mm2run.exe
  • UnWise.exe (The uninstaller)

All were last modified 11-12-1997 at 2:11pm.

It's very possible that you have a version of the game that doesn't seem to be available anywhere online from what I can tell, your game data file is also a tiny bit bigger than mine so I wonder if there's any other features/bug fixes in yours that aren't in other versions.

Unfortunately as it is a paid game we would not be allowed to share the files so that everyone could be on the same version on here due to copyright reasons. :/ So I suppose the only option is to make another leaderboard or rule where the maze is not counted as part of the run, for those who are on maze-versions.

Fyn, Denmark

It would be a shame if we had to split it up in two leaderboards, but on the other hands if there in reality do exist more than one variation it might be the only solution? (I'm not that familiar with speedrunning, so I'm not sure what the "usual" thing to do in such case would be.) And I think it's a good thing to respect the copyright stuff despite it would be easier just to share the various versions.

It is funny that your files are newer than my dat/idx files. But it's weird with the missing lab-files. I might try to look at the install process at some point to see if something is disabled. The maze do stand out quite a lot regarding graphics so maybe it's possible to disable it.

I have btw made a comment to the Dansh guys speedrun, since the title and description makes it clear that it's the version with the maze - so maybe he/she is aware of the different versions too.

New Zealand

Yeah that would be a shame, this is the first game that I've moderated on here so I'm also pretty unfamiliar with what would be done in this scenario for other games. If this were say, a Mario game, then I'd imagine they would make a second category, though you're the first person I've seen to have no maze, so we'd have to find out if there are even other copies with no maze or if it's just the copy you own. Unfortunately due to how obscure the game is it's super hard to find these things out haha.

One other option would be to simply not count the maze as part of the run, just to be sure that everyone would be on the same level. It wouldn't take long for me to manually re-time all the runs on the leaderboard to remove the labyrinth section if it came to that.

I believe there are 3 options when installing the game, 'Minimum', 'Typical' and 'Full', I think if you select minimum or typical then the lab files are kept on the CD rather than being installed on your computer, perhaps try opening the CD as a folder and seeing if they're in there instead? Though on 'minimum' installation it still has the maze of course, it just reads the files from the disk rather than the hard drive.

Good idea contacting StepCore, hopefully he replies with any info. I'll do some research and see if I can find anything about it today.

New Zealand

Well, here's something!

Turns out they perhaps re-released the game? I found this video:

It doesn't have the maze, and one of the comments says (as far as google translate tells me) "so sad that they removed the maze from the game when they renewed it." Other comments note that too.

I think perhaps then the only option is to make a second category on the leaderboard, one for version 1.1, and one of the re-release, version 1.2.

Fyn, Denmark

Nice finding! It's true, a lot of the comments state that - including the person uploading it. On top of that some other comments that there was a glitch in the kitchen so you could Magnus/Skipper appear more than once. (I believe that won't make a difference in a speedrun, but it's a whole segment (glitches and alike) that would be worth investigating too.)

I'll try to look into the install options. When I'm playing it, I do it without the CD so it might be something related to what you say - I do however think I picked "full" since space wasn't an issue. And I'm at my parents house right now, so I hope I can find the old game here too.

Yeah, might be something with a different leaderboard/category - it could be interesting to figure out what others have done, I do however not atm remember any other games that could have a similar case. Maybe it's worth looking at some of the bigger PC-games with speedruns like Half-Life?

On one hand I think it would be a shame if we had to remove the maze since it's part of (some version of) the game. On the other hand it would mean all versions of the game would be able to participate - and even if we skipped the last part where you have to hit the skeleton I think that would be okay too since it seems random (as you've also noted in your guide). But I think we should be careful to rush it since it a major thing to remove, I believe.

New Zealand

Interesting! I'm really curious in getting my hands on this version so that I can mess around and see if there are any exploits that could be used compared to 1.1.

I think Half Life 2 has two categories like that, one for the old version of the game engine which has a lot more glitches that can be used to your advantage, and then one for the new engine which removes a lot of those.

However, Super Mario Odyssey has all of the game's versions contained on one single leaderboard, so there are runs from the newest versions, and the original version. So it's also a possibility that we simply leave it as it is, and just have all of the times on one leaderboard despite there being around 9-10 minutes difference between the versions.

Either way, would you mind sending me a picture of what your CD case for the game looks like? I might try and find if it's available for purchase anywhere but wanna make sure I get the correct version.

Fyn, Denmark

That's understandable, I can't wait to get my hands on the older version to see if there is any difference - and if it works on my Windows 10 laptop. I found out my brother has our old version, he will try to mail it to me.

I can try sending you a picture at some point when I get back home. I'm however almost completely sure it looks like this: http://www.playright.dk/info/titel/magnus-+-myggen-den-store-skattejagt (I think they rebranded all the M&M/S&S games at some point since I've seen more games in the series with that "frame" style). I'm however sure my version is in a DVD-case (whereas I know my old game is in a CD-case). Btw, let me know if I can help - it might be easier to find in Denmark secondhand.

I'm now almost 100% sure this version doesn't have the maze included. I tried re-installing the game, but there wasn't any options at all. And I have then tried extracting the data-files (InstallShield compressed Archive files) that was on the CD, but it seems like the LAB-files wheren't to be found anywhere. So maybe version 1.2 just doesn't have a maze.

Regarding how to deal with the difference I think I personally favour the HL2 model. I don't know Super Mario Odyssey enough to know if there was a major change in the versions but it sounds like that's the case for HL2 - just like it is for Skipper and Skeeto 2. If we only had one list it would never make sense for people to choose the maze version (unless they ofcourse only had that version) which I again would think would be a bit of a shame since it's a big part of the original game.

Btw, I thought a bit about.. What happens if you rename your lab-folder? Does the game crash or simply just skip it?

New Zealand

Awesome! I'm running the game on a Windows 10 laptop and I've had no issues running it, so I think it should work fine, though worst case there's always VirtualBox of course.

I'll keep an eye out and see if I can find this version some point. I'm curious as to if there is an English version of the re-release, so far all of the videos I've found without the maze have been in the Danish version.

Yeah sounds like they totally removed it in 1.2, I wonder why they did that, since at the final boss you suddenly have all of the teeth to fight the skeleton with (and you collect those teeth in the maze).

I agree, it's a shame to have to segment an already tiny community, but it makes the most sense out of all of the options, I'll modify the leaderboards soon to have a section for both versions.

Haha regarding the lab folder, I actually tried that yesterday. The game spams an error for every single missing file, then crashes completely. Although, if you remove just one file the maze will still work, just one of the sections will have a black screen and an error instead of the maze, but you will still be able to interact and navigate.

Fyn, Denmark

Nice! I hope so too.. I had some issues running it in Virtual Box (Windows XP), but it worked fine in Windows 10. I did hower have some issues with this games on my desktop PC (also running Windows 10). I e.g. remember it crashing when I used the lever in the clock tower before S&S was shocked, but I never figured out why - I just assumed it was because of Windows 10. But that's a completely other story.

I've done my best for taking a picture of the case: https://i.imgur.com/GYXYDWf.jpg. I think there's two things that's worth noting (other than the new "frame" in the front as mentioned earlier): The fact that it's copyrighted in 2006 (it matches the file-date, so I guess it was released in 2006) and the "Production number" (below the barcode): MM2-01-06-DA. Maybe there is a MM2-01-06-EN from 2006+?

I btw also found and English version since I was curious too - I've ordered it and will get back to you what version that is. Maybe there is somewhere we can collect all the various version (and how to distinguish between them) so it's easy for others to figure it out too? Only problem about doing it here is the missing ability of uploading images, but then we might just use e.g. imgur for that?

Agree, it's a shame - but I think it's the best solution. But I hope more will try it out so the list will keep expanding. I didn't know about it until a few days ago, but I hope more will know about it in the future.

And about why they did it. I actually thought about writing the creator(s) an e-mail and try to figure out why and what different versions there are - maybe there are also a 1.0? Fingers crossed that they will respond.

Thanks for trying it out - funny we had the same thought! It makes sense it cannot handle it.. But it's a bit interesting that it didn't crash if you only removed some of the files. But then we know you cannot simply convert version 1.1 into 1.2.

Fyn, Denmark

And now that we talk about versions. My brother mentioned that he once downloaded a demo of the game where the only restriction was that you only had 20 minutes to complete it - so he and a friend just ended up completing it within 30 minutes. And I think he said there wasn't any maze in that version (or else I think he should submit a run 😉) - so I guess it's the same version as the one I have.

Nevertheless I think it would be cool to be able to get a hand on that demo. I think it was around 10 years ago so I'm not sure if he even has the computer anymore. I just tried looking at magnusogmyggen.dk via web.archive.org and it looks like you could download a demo, but unfortunally web.archive.org doesn't have that URL stored. But it's really worth checking that page out - epecially before and after 2006 (I think there was a major change regarding everything at that time).

New Zealand

Interesting, I don't think I've ever had the game crash while playing before, but there are a number of different ways to soft-lock the game and be unable to continue (such as leaving the room before the old mouse gives you the coin, when you come back he is gone).

Awesome, that's a perfect image! I believe that my copy of the first game (which I unfortunately have misplaced), was in a DVD case rather than a CD case, perhaps they re-released that one too? Also, if you're curious, this is what my case for the game looks like: https://i.imgur.com/QWX7mNT.jpg

Yeah that's a good idea, you can embed images into Guides on here, so that would probably be a good way to go about creating a guide of the versions. I'll try and grab a photo of my case for it soon

I think Ole Ivanoff (The lead developer/creator?) is on twitter, and was last active less than a month ago, perhaps tweeting at him could be an option?

I never thought about the fact that there could be a demo, I just snooped around the wayback and I see what you mean, it's a shame that not all pages are available. I also checked out ivanoff.dk on there which mostly fully available and talked about the release of the second game, but there was no demo link. :(

Come to think of it, a demo would be perfect for this speedrun, right? Since demos are free it would likely be allowed to be distribution on here, and we wouldn't need to worry about the time limit due to us speedrunning it anyways.

New Zealand

Think I just found the demo completely accidentally, stand by for more info!

New Zealand

Okay, so I did indeed find a demo, however when I try to open any doors on the first floor, it shows a message stating the fact that it's a demo and you need to buy it to continue, so I don't think it can be played :(

https://i.imgur.com/yh5z4DW.png

Nevertheless, this exe version is apparently 1.1.5.0

Fyn, Denmark

It might also have been the case that the game was just stuck (like the sound-issued we talked about earlier), I don't actually remember. Only think I remember was that I started saving a lot more to make sure I didn't have to start all over again if it would happen again.

Awesome! I think it would be nice to make a guide about it, we can always expand it when we figure out more about the game various versions. I think I'll also try to scan the case-paper in order to get an even better image.

True, I think that's a good option - and even better than a "private" e-mail thread (if he answers). As you've seen, I have already tried tweeting him - fingers crossed that he will answer.

I totally agree. Ofcourse it can be difficult for first-timers, but if all speedruns are "expected" to be below 30 minutes anyways there shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure about the distribution, but maybe there's something written in the terms and conditions of the demo.

What a shame about the demo (which are in Dutch I think). How did you find it? I think we should still keep an eye on if there are any demos available out there. I'll try to ask my brother if he by any chance still have the demo on a PC (depite I think the chances are small).

New Zealand

Ah yeah that's totally possible, hard to tell really since the game rarely gives any errors when it crashes, rather it just closes out completely.

Sweet, I'll set up a guide some time soon with everything we know about each version. It's a shame that multiple people can't edit guides (I don't think), since it would handy to be able to have a few people adding their versions to it.

I have a good feeling that he will respond, he did a video on youtube in 2016 playing through the first game with someone ( in danish, no subtitles :( ), so at least that shows that he's still interested in the original games. It may take a little while for him to respond either way since it doesn't seem like he's too active on there.

Yeah that's true, hopefully it would be distributable, similar to how the original Doom demo was encouraged to be spread around as much as possible in order to introduce many people to it, who would then buy the full game to play the rest of the episodes. I guess that's another thing we may have to ask if we do get our hands on a proper demo like that.

It's funny, I was on archive.org and decided to see if anyone had any versions saved on there so I could check the version, but the only result was one copy of Tales from Paradise Park (The first game), I figured I might as well check it out and lo and behold the game actually came with that demo for the second game. It seems there were a few demos bundled in with it such as freddi fish and pyjama sam, so it seems like that copy was part of a promotional bundle by some third-party company? I haven't seen any other copies of the original game that feature demos for the second game either way, so it could have just been a one-off.

By the way, I'm not sure if you use Discord but I've now set up a server for this game, it should be on the sidebar on the left. I figured it could be a good way for people to discuss general stuff about the games and/or findings.

Game stats
Followers
3
Runs
15
Players
8
Latest threads
Posted 3 years ago
1 reply
Posted 3 years ago
0 replies
Posted 4 years ago
30 replies
Posted 5 years ago
0 replies
Posted 5 years ago
Moderators