Hi all, I have been thinking for a while about suggesting to change the rule that establishes when a run is supposed to end, as I personally think it would be a good thing, so I would like to hear the opinions of people who ran/run the game. This change would only apply to the categories "20 Rounds" and "50 Rounds". The current rule states that the run "ends on leaving level 20/50", which is very arbitrary both in terms of wording and in terms of timing. My suggestion would be to let the run end on the frame when Round Clear appears on screen: this would actually make the timing much more precise, and the job of mods easier, and will allow us to frame count runs more precisely whenever that becomes a necessity. Beside, checking how the game works in the TAS editor, it is easy to see how even the game itself considers the round completed on that frame: the layout of every round is in fact predetermined by the frame you end the previous round on, and the frame the game considers to do so is exactly the frame when Round Clear appears on screen. In case this change was approved, runs that have already been submitted would be retimed, and, as I already checked, there would be no changes in terms of ranking, so everyone would keep their position on the leaderboards. I would like to know what runners and mods think about this, so we can make a decision all together.

I think as both a moderator and runner I'd welcome that change more than I would be opposed to it as being included in the timing. I like the idea of the change honestly because running out the door doesn't make much sense. As you said as well if it ever came down to being stupidly optimized between categories it also makes it easier to time.

I'm noticing you could also keep running out the door, but use the frame "Go" disappears. The coins also disappear on the frame you run out. Would that make it easier to time without having to worry about changing the rule?

I see what you're saying there, but it's not even really about making it easier to time it at the end of the day, as there's a few visual cues that allow for that in some circumstances as you mentioned anyway. Point is there is no reason why you'd have to walk out the door to begin with to consider a round completed, so from a more technical standpoint, if the categories require the completion of 20 or 50 rounds, then those rounds are completed literally once the game says it, not when Toad takes the door and leaves, making it very unnecessary to set the end of the run further than when Round Clear appears. I would just like to make things more technically proper and less arbitrary in general with this change.

Since the existing rule has been in effect, strategy would be trying to end the round on the right side this way toad is closer to the exit. But with the proposed change, now it doesn't matter where toad is on the screen once the round clears, even if you still have control and haven't exited the tree.

The new rule would make ending a round slightly easier not having to worry about being near the exit. I'm not opposed to the change, but I can understand why the current rule exists since there was still control of toad.

Hmm, I'm not sure it would make it "easier". It's more so arbitrary.

Batman is a good example, I guess. You HAVE to run to the Joker to actually end the run. Otherwise the run doesn't literally end. In Wario's Woods once you beat a level (20, 50, 99) why do you actually need to run to the door to be "done"?

Arguably it would produce slightly more competitive times over time in this game if the round ends based on completion. There's arguably also not much strategy (though I can see where you're coming from) waiting on the right side after destroying everything, as it's just dead time until the area lets you pass through.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, and yes, you always want to try and finish as close as possible to the exit to move from one round to the next one, but as far as categories based on partial completion go, I really don't think it should be required for you to run to the exit as fast as possible to get to the next round that you're not going to play anyway; your job should be done once the 20th or the 50th round of the game gets cleared, which again happens once the game tells you you've cleared that round, not when you exit it.

Since nobody showed opposition, the change becomes effective as of today. A few runners might receive a notification in regards to the fact that their time on the leaderboard was updated, just a heads up.