"All Missions" to misc categories
8 years ago

I personally think all missions shouldn't be a main category considering it's definition. Therefore it should be moved under misc categories.

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this, that's why I started this thread.

PS: I think same change should be done in gta 3.

Massachusetts, USA

I'll elaborate on my own opinion on this.

While some people (including myself) have taken the category seriously in the past, it was never a main category, and it's a bit arbitrary. It should remain on the leaderboards for those past runs, and for those who would want to run this seriously, but it never was anything that would be considered main, but just a 100% practice category really.

Germany

Only speaking for GTA III right now:

http://puu.sh/jCpL3/c2794fead3.png

Ok, I can agree on 3, but VC still needs to be sorted out, because of it's definition.

Would it possible to perhaps "fix" the all missions category in VC to make it more acceptable like in gta 3?

VC AM can put to misc because the definitions is quite arbitrary III AM should stay as it is this the definition make sense

a legit in-between category for VC should be "Any% no asset duplication" or 7 assets or whatever people want to call it

Edit: or put NG+ Ingame 100% in main, everyone should run it ffzyesDuping

Massachusetts, USA

There is zero point in:

-- changing the definition of all missions to be more true to the "all" part of it, and obsoleting every single run under that category;

-- creating a new all missions category based on this, because interest for such a category doesn't seem high anyway, and it would only further complicate things;

-- removing all missions altogether, because of the number of past runs and the possibility of people wanting to run it in the future, and the fact that it's a full-game run despite its arbitrary definition (hence the suggestion of making it misc.).

That's what I have to say for now

MuXu96 likes this
Bavaria, Germany

I'd just like to point out that the definitions for GTA III and VC all missions are exactly the same. Blame Rockstar for making bad choices¤ in VC, fine. But it's no different than the choice R¤ made in making USJ not counting for GTA SA 100%, for example.

¤Bad choices being making some mission-y things not missions, and not including a mission counter in the stats screen.

Edit: Whether that should influence the misc or main choice, I don't care.

Adam_ak and S. like this
Belgium

Maybe it makes even less sense, but why not make VC AM equal to III? What I mean is: add boatyard, and all other checkpoint-races VC has (just like in III), and leave out all collecteables and so-called 'side-missions' (vigilante, taxi, pizza boy etc). It would still remain arbitrary, but at least it's more comparable to III.

Like Pete kinda said in IRC, I also feel like there has to be something in between, since any% might just be too complicated or ruined for some, and 100% on the other hand might just be too long.

Friesland, Netherlands

lighnat0r just said that VC AM already is equal to III AM

I'm fine with keeping AM a main category, its a good mid point between any% and 100% and people seem to respect the category. But if its misc, fine.

3AM definition isn't about "all missions that change the savefile name" it's "complete all missions according to the stats. (73/73) " 3 main.scm specifies that there are 73 missions and it shows up in the stats

VC main.scm specifies that there are 88 missions, "all missions" only does 6X missions

Bavaria, Germany

"all missions that change the savefile name" is the exact same thing as "complete all missions according to the stats."

The fact that for GTA III main.scm specifies 73 and that is the same number in the stats is 'coincidental'. If R¤ had added the missions to the stats in GTA VC it would not show 88, it would show the number of missions done in a GTA VC all missions run.

Russia

I researched exe a little bit and came to interesting conclusions.

First of all I will start with what happens in GTA III. The only opcode that contributes to "mission passed" stat is 0318. It also changes the savefile name. The opcode that sets the total number of missions is 042C and these stats are used together in "Mission passed" row of in-game stats. So from technical point of view definition of "all missions%" in GTA III is to reach every existing opcodes 0318 of game script. For example, technically current 100% definition is to reach every existing 030C opcode of game script.

Now to Vice City. Indeed it does not have "mission passed" stat that is saved in savefile. But there still is such a counter in game memory and this counter is increased by the same 0318 opcode. Here is a screenshot provided by Lighnat0r, the counter in question is called MissionPassed_CStats: http://i.imgur.com/2jMcQVj.png It also includes 0595 opcode implementation. The thing is that the implementation didn't change much from GTA III. This counter, as I mentioned earlier, is not saved in savefile and is reset after reloading game. But 0318 is not the only opcode that changes value of the counter. As seen on screenshot, 0595 also increases this counter. Additionally, the total mission counter is set by the same opcode as in III, 042C, and sets total missions to 88. There are 57 occurences of 0318 opcode in original script, and 31 occurences of 0595, total of 88.

So, according to definition of GTA III all missions (which technically doesn't differ much from 100%), there are two ways of defining all missions in VC. First is to inherit one from III in terms of opcode (which is current definition) and changing savename, and the second is to take mission definition of VC and include side-missions that end with 0595.

Sorry for too many techicalities, but they were point of this post :)

United States

Does anyone here want to run a VC category with all side-missions in addition to what is already done in the run? Doesn't seem like it, so why change it?

What's more important is that the run is enjoyable. I find All Missions in its current state enjoyable. It's pretty technical with the duping required and other strats that are used in the WR route. I think there is no point in changing the category the way it is. Continue to only require 0318 opcode completion, as stated by Lighnat0r and Nick007J.

I do not think the category should be moved to miscellaneous. All Missions fills an important gap between any% and 100%.

There's nothing misc or arbitrary about this category, in my opinion. As stated, it can be defined from a technical standpoint as "reach all 0318 opcodes." Missions that are excluded from the run do not sport a 0318 opcode.

MuXu96 and S. like this

-Not any% -Not 100% -Main Category

hello?

Germany

But every run that reaches the credits is any% OpieOP

Friesland, Netherlands

Any run that is run a lot and is taken serious enough can be considered a main category. The notion "any% and 100% are the only main categories" is SDA bullshit (along with low%, which is SDA bullshitting on its bullshit). Hence why 16-star is a valid ShitMario64 category, despite not being any% (ignoring Pete's remark, which is correct.), and why inbounds runs are a valid category in Portal.

All robberies is being run more than All Missions I think, but it is not taken nearly as serious by its runners as AM seems to be by some of its runners. So All Robberies remains a misc category.

Massachusetts, USA

Well, people actually run 16 Stars and Inbounds in their respective games at least. All Missions does have a clear definition and a reasonable objective (beating "all" of the missions, regardless of the definition of "all"). However, much competition in this category has always been lacking, which alone makes it feel very "miscellaneous". Anyone could just say "oh hey let's make a new category called All Assets, which would involve All Missions & Assets. This is a run that could be considered a form of "beating the game", as with Any%, All Missions, and 100%. Let's make it a main category because of that."

It's not like many people would run that category anyway. It'd be pointless. The only reason All Missions should stay where it is would be because of the existing runs. Anyway, this whole discussion is actually kinda pointless, because the result won't threaten the existence of the category, and if Frew would rather have it stay where it is, then so be it. It's not like I actually give a shit about whether or not it's considered misc., but at least we got some thoughts in should this arise in the future, where circumstances may be different.

MuXu96 likes this
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