I'm watching new WR from ndt and he uses manifest cheat code in NG run. Since when it is allowed? Shouldn't this count as NG+ run?
I'm the one that did it so I'll give my word on it first. "Since when it is allowed?" I found this about 8 months ago (I've used this method for a couple other runs too) and I've talked to someone about this to see if this should be allowed first. "Shouldn't this count as NG+ run?" no because in the run I still started completely from scratch and used the code to get the fabrication kits after resetting. You also only get everything you get in the safehouse after the first two missions (except the end of New World where there is a mobile armory). This means that the first two missions are pretty much entirely normal because the game detects that you haven't done those missions before (because you reset). Aside from that my timer starts while I am in the safehouse instead of starting when I load up Black Ops, so I lose a minute because I started from scratch and have to get everything which technically means I am at a slight disadvantage where I have to do the safehouse as fast as possible and also cut even more time back after I get the items. When I just figured out the glitch my first time was 2:27:08 which wasn't far off from my glitchless WR and I knew how to use the items already because of NG+. After getting used to the glitch and using the items more in NG I started to cut more time. Another difference is that I am Level 1 unlike NG+ where I was Level 20 which means I couldn't switch through martial, chaos, and control cybercores without going in mobile armories. Any% NG means beating the game by all means after starting a new game, which I did and showed proof that I reset. The cheat code your talking about is actually a developer intended easter egg so no 3rd party software was used, I have a guide on how to do it. All you do to open the panel is pressing RT+X+Y (Xbox Controller), R2+Square+Triangle (PS4 Controller) while you are in the options menu then you can type "Manifest" from there. I've plugged in a controller in my PC in order to do this and if you want to use keyboard than just switch back to keyboard once you are done. As I mentioned before the manifest easter egg only gives you 100 fabrication kits which I use to unlock the cybercores and upgrade the TAC-RIGs, that's all. The shortcut I did after all of that was a glitch that stacked my class to get the Haymaker and War Machine which anyone can do as well and that part doesn't even require the manifest easter egg because you don't need fabrication kits to do the glitch. Basically you can 100% do everything I did in that run. Regardless of that I still have a couple of obselete runs that are the WR that doesn't involve me doing all of that, I just did this to push my time further, same with Blur. If it's too much of a problem with anyone I can check if I can make an "NG Glitchless" category.
completely disagree with the use of cheatcodes here, whether you use them on levels 1 and 2 or not your still cheating to unlock stuff that a player on true NG would not be doing.
for the record i will be submitting my own run of this game and i will not be entering a cheat code because its ya know cheating.
And that's exactly why glitchless was made, because people will disagree with that and it's fine. So feel free to submit a run without any glitches to glitchless, which bans the cheat code. Reason why I believe the manifest egg should still be allowed in non-glitchless is because any% means beating the game by any means as long as no mods or third party programs are involved, and using the manifest easter egg doesn't breach any of those rules. And at the same time the only use the easter egg really has is to have enough fabrication kits for the cybercores and tac-rigs, so runs are actually totally do-able without it, just saves an extra minute or two though. And that's the only thing you can get out of that menu anyways, there's no codes for god mode, no codes for automatic completion, no codes for more XP so it's not like some totally out of reach thing. Regarding your comment on "a player on true NG would not be doing", any player can use the code at anytime no matter how many times you completed the campaign or not. So technically, it is a "New Game" run because you are fully restarting your campaign and using the code after, which is what new game means, restart your campaign and start a run. The easter egg menu was never against the rules before and after it was used in runs. Not to mention that using the easter egg menu doesn't put some lock on your level or some type of penalty against your account, and it can be used online as well and won't inflict your online stats. It also wastes a whole minute of setting up the classes in the safehouse so in a sense it should waste time unless you know what you are doing, which totally makes it fair imo. So we can agree to disagree but I believe it should still be allowed non-glitchless. There's already a few other runs that have used it, and there also is a glitchless category so shifting the rules for something that was never banned would be pointless anyways. You do you though, the glitchless category isn't there for no reason and you can submit a run there as much as you want as long as the rules are being followed.
@JustRetroAndy Implying that a runner of the NG category wouldn't be using cheat codes because they don't know them is a little weird. It's like you think every NG run should be done completely blind with no knowledge of the game at all, but that's not how it works, every speedrunner practices things over and over, and knows all kinds of things before starting their fresh run, knowing what cheat codes are is just another part of that imo.
And if you want to argue about them not being used because they are "cheats" well, that's what the glitchless category is for.
The only really valid point that can be discussed here imo is that the cheat code is entered before the timer starts, which probably shouldn't be done, anything that has any effect on the run should be done after the timer is started.
Its called "New Game" not "New Game after a bit of fiddling" entering that cheat code in my opinion which unlocks the fabrication kits is a new game+ thing. I mean i could be wrong or at least it looks like I'm wrong considering its the world record holder defending his use of cheats lol
In response to, "world record holder defending his use of cheats lol", I wouldn't put it that way. For one, I'm also record holder in both glitchless and NG+ and they don't use the menu, and there's a lot of more reasons I'm not really bothered by it like I said. I'm basically giving my reasoning on why I think the strategy should be allowed, and because I like to see this game optimized. Tbh, it wasn't even just WR I was going for, it was optimizing the time. If I only cared about WR I would've stopped a long time ago even before I started using this strat. And imo, what's considered new game is when you hit the reset button and start the game. The fiddling is happening after my save file is fully reset, so basically it's "New Game then a bit of fiddling". However, I think Klooger has a good point on the timer part of it, with maybe changing the timing method if this strategy is used. Like starting the timer after I enter the code, or starting the timer once I select my character instead of starting it inside the safehouse.
@JustRetroAndy lol many games/runs have you do something before you start time what is your point here, as stated there are categories where glitches/cheats are allowed and glitchless where glitches/cheats are not allowed. if you want to do glitchless go for it but don't discourage the other categories just because its something different.
my point is he is CHEATING, lol how many times and also let me just quote the rules here because clearly you guys havent read them.
General Rule List:
Hacking / cheating is banned The use of modifications are banned (including Steam Workshop mods) The developer console or the use of any developer commands is banned (noclip, ufo, god, etc.) Video and audio proof is mandatory (with the exception of freerun) Custom FOV is allowed FPS Cap is allowed Emulators are NOT allowed
listen, ive considered to grow into good friends with NDT and I trust his judgement and by "cheating" as you say he refers to GSC injectors and 3rd party programs. Also he is the one who wrote the rules 😂
i just want to point out that while it seems i am just after Ndt's being rendered invalid due to cheating 2nd place and 3rd place also cheat.
When I put "Hacking / cheating is banned" I was implying to the use of either 3rd party programs such as GSC injectors, external programs, or using cheat commands in-game. Cheat commands can be used after enabling "/developer 2", before loading up Black Ops 3 OR after loading any workshop mod. If you have developer mode on, you can access the cheat commands in the developer console such as timescale, noclip, etc. If "/developer 2" is turned off then you cannot access these commands and attempting to type them in will give you the message "Cheats are not enabled on this server". And yes, there is commands that you can use that don't require "/developer 2" which is why I had two separate rules set up, but the point of the rule being; if "/developer 2" is enabled and in-game cheats are turned on during the run, even if the runner does not use the console during the run, it will be rejected if it is caught. The game does not refer to the manifest menu as a cheat code menu, rather as an easter egg that is hidden inside the game which was eventually dug up. Therefore, I was not considering this menu as "cheats" when setting up those rules. I can make that rule more clear and state that "External programs, GSC injectors, and Developer mode is banned" but I was not referring to the manifest menu, especially since I set up these rules after the strategy was used. Besides, these rules are kind of just obvious rules that were in-place but weren't written so I put up the General Rule List to make it a bit more obvious for anyone that thinks using external programs or developer mode is a good idea in a full-game speed run.
If you ever look at any decompile of BO3 and find anything under the campaign's code (scripts/cp/_cheats.gsc to name one) you will see exactly what I mean, and that the game separates both the manifest menu and the "in-game cheats" into two separate things. The game checks if in-game cheats are enabled and will lock your account's online stats from gaining achievements, XP, or any progress made until you have restarted your game and cheats being turned off, while the manifest menu does not do that. Yes, people will call this a cheat menu because it is similar to cheat code menus in other games but the game refers it as a hidden easter egg (that doesn't tell you what to do) that gives you a slight headstart. Technically speaking, you could refer to this as "cheating" because it gives you advantage, but wouldn't that make glitches "cheating" too? That is the main reason why glitchless categories exist throughout speedrun.com. So no, I don't think it shouldn't be a thing on NG because it gives you an advantage, that is what the glitchless category is for. I think you should go give glitchless a shot, and make that category a bit bigger because there is only about 7 runs done, which should encourage more people to run the category.
So what you're actually saying is. In game cheats are allowed but 3rd party isn't. What a mockery. Think you'd better change the context of the rules then because that isn't clear at all.
@JustRetroAndy lmao calling top 3 runs of a game invalid bc they use a strat that casual runners wouldnt use is wild its almost like top runners of a game use strats that casual runners wouldnt pretty wild right and its not like there is a whole seperate category made for you stop whining. since im such a cheater and that my run is invalid please knock my glitchless run off of the top 3 cuz i clearly am un deserving of that spot and clearly you are better then me since u arent ya know cheating
and idc about disagreement but i dont wanna hear someone who hasnt ran this game once disrespecting my run and calling it invalid thats just wack
i have ran the game, go check my twitch channel i just havent submitted a run yet thank you for assuming though :)
