Hey, time to make a bunch of people mad at me...

So my Free Play run was retimed to 1:56 because I started the timer in the Cantina. This was intentional, and I don't feel the run should have been retimed. 1:56:39 is what I submitted and that's what the leaderboard should show.

Moving to/between any level in the Cantina is a meaningful part of the run and needs to be counted in all full game categories as far as I'm concerned. Starting the timer upon gaining control in the first level is not valid; in the any% categories it leaves out the time for the first cutscene, which should not be done. This is just an example to make my point clearer.

In Free Play, activating bricks should count towards time. It's an "anything goes" category. I don't HAVE to turn on anything in order to comply with the definition of the category. As such, anything I turn on should count towards my run time.

The one exception to these rules is any% NG+. In that category you have to use bricks to comply with the definition; as such time for that run should start upon unpausing after activating whatever extras you wish to use. One might make the argument that you don't HAVE to use bricks in NG+, and I disagree with that. The point of NG+ is having bonuses that NG does not have. Not using those bonuses means they might as well not be there, making the run no different from a standard NG run.

In any case, all full game categories except NG+ should start time upon gaining control in the Cantina and end upon losing control after the final played level. Any and all movement in the Cantina, cutscenes, pause menus, etc. should count towards time since they are all meaningful actions that affect the game in some way.

Any and all runs I do in the future will use this timing. Start upon gaining control in the Cantina; end upon losing control in the final level. In NG+ start upon unpausing after activating bricks.

Tl;dr: Time for full game categories should start in the Cantina rather than the first level, and end after the last level.

i agree, but you should probably consult with mods and the rest of the community before you drastically change runtime rules

To solve the first problem there are two avenues in my view. First: we change all the Lego Star Wars games. Admittedly far more difficult, but for the sake of consistency I feel the superior solution. If the game starts in the Cantina or Diner, the game starts there and should be timed from there. Second: consider TCS a different game entirely and give it its own seperate set of rules. Would be easier to implement but ultimately inferior as it is less consistent across the series.

To solve the second problem: Don't. Keep the old runs as they are without any retiming or modification. Simply note somewhere they were done using a different rule set and call it a day. If I might be a bit tongue in cheek for a moment, this modification could be achieved easily by writing "Legends Timing" in the title. If comparisons must be done (such as for contesting records) use the old timing method to retime a new run, then place the faster run ahead, with the submitted time. Example: my recent free play run was 1:56:39; Smkurki's old run was 1:56:43. He used the old time, I used mine. Had there been a question of which was faster, the mods would have retimed my run from 1-1, compared it to Smkurki, and then placed my run in the appropriate slot with the time as submitted. Which is basically what was already done, except the modified time was kept.

I understand how challenging it would be to change the timing rules. A lot of people might lose records and a lot of people would have to relearn a lot of categories (keep in mind these potential changes would apply only to full game categories, not things like ILs or Super Stories.) But in the end I feel it would be a worthwhile change. It would make the rule set far more accurate and consistent across multiple categories. A secondary benefit is that changes like this would get people active again. This thread is the most activity I've seen on the forums in weeks. Discussions like these are what will spur involvement and engagement and I'd really love to see more.

Tl;dr: Problem one: either change all the LSW games for consistency (better fix) or consider this game seperate with its own rules (less better fix.) Problem two: don't change any times, just note they were done with different rules. Use old rules for comparing old and new runs (for the sake of ease.) I know rule changes are hard and will make people mad and cause problems, but at least they'll be active in the community.

That's exactly what I'm talking about re: comparing times between rules. If the runs are within say 20 seconds of each other, take out the first Cantina of the new run and then compare the two. If the new run ends up faster, put it in front even if the submitted time is longer than the old run. But if the new one is like five minutes faster, one Cantina trip doesn't matter and nothing need be done; just leave the time as is and put it ahead.

Another potential solution is to create a sort of "archive" leaderboard and move runs with the old rules there and put runs with the new timing in the main leaderboard, thus removing the need for comparisons entirely. Just make sure the old runs are still accessible for viewing for strats, splits (most splits can still be compared, since the first split is the only one that will be majorly affected in any way) etc.

In any case, all the solutions I've put forward are purely hypothetical and I'm not saying this needs to happen right now. There are changes that I feel definitely need to be made, but I agree that the community needs to weigh in first. Someone else probably has some idea none of us have yet considered.