(2) it's an in-game option that everyone has access to, what makes it different than "vehicle density" in IV era games?

Because unlike IV vehicle density, you can change framerate on the fly with an external program without having to go through the menu. Need 30 FPS? just bind a hotkey for it and press it. Need 60FPS? Just bind a hotkey and press it. Eventually you're not even optimizing a videogame, you're just optimizing what framerate the game runs at for any specific point of the run. GTAIV does this, by the way, and I'm not saying I'm against it, but it's definitely not as black and white as the statement says.

@KZ_FREW I vote highly against messing with the frame limiter. it just changes too much of everyone time and from my understanding the game acts every odd without that on. I think with the rules that stand that one doesn't need to mess with.

is this possible to keep no vid runs just without ranking them?

I don't agree with the frame limiter being messed with at all, by enforcing say 60fps max you're just adding extra arbitrariness, and powdinet made a few good points where you'd need external programs to cap it effectively and that isn't good

My 2 cents

1. I agree with changing timing at start 2: No cheats whatso ever, even accidental. there is a fix for it if you wanna use it. Also the line when is it truly accidental is gonna get argued to infinity
2. AM- I like BackMadeJays idea, adding races, gt skip all that. Make it interesting and unique
3. IL. Not a runner myself but I use them to see what I can do on my own runs, good job restoring those, mad props.
4. 25 FPS. changing fps in this game scares me too much. I would prefer if it stays limited at 25

2. no cheats at all
3. assets sound good in this category
4. no changing fps at all

I don't see a reason to change the rules regarding the frame limiter. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The frame limiter rule should be removed in my opinion. Why would you force someone to keep it on if it's an easily accessible game option. Yes, Rockstar don't suggest turning it off, but it doesn't mean player should completely avoid it. If creators truly wanted to limit player's fps, then such game option wouldn't exist at all.

And no external fps limiters should be allowed just like any other 3rd party software to modify game. If you want to toggle your fps -> use in-game option during the run.

Unlimited fps makes my game unstable! / I'm scared!

Then simply don't use it. No one would force you to play with uncapped fps. Speedrun like you speedran before.

My computer isn't powerful enough! I don't get much fps! It would be unfair!

Why not forcing everyone to play with same draw distance then? And in same resolution! And on same specs computers! Oh! And don't forget same model keyboards/mouses (those people with extra mouse buttons really get unfair advantage! Sarcasm ends

You can't blame other people for having better hardware. It's the same way with loading times in games. Has anyone ever complained about it as peope who use ssd get unfair advantage because of fast loads? If you still think it would be still unfair, you should realize that due to different hardware people already get different fps while pause-buffering.

I will still play with FL ON and I don't want to have anything related to runs with uncapped fps

Of course. Just add an option while submitting runs to tell whether frame limiter was on the whole time or not. And such people can filter leaderboard by this criteria.

Why would you play game with unlimited fps? You would get more time lost due to game bugs than timesaves because of higher fps! If it doesn't make any difference then why not allow it, it's runner's decision whether he wants to go fast or slow.

I am not familiar with the source code of the engine, or how it works in detail, but over a decade ago I got very familiar with an engine that locked physics to framerate while modding (oblivion), and have basic understanding of coding after wasting multiple years on a computer science degree. Looking back at GTA 3 and VC, that also used renderware, just with less modifications, higher framerate could make a difference, since some things are locked to framerate. The game engine is broken as it is IMO (unless you use Windows XP), so unlocking framerate could have side effects. Sure, there are ways around it like with SA Limit Adjuster, but seeing how even GInput is not allowed, I doubt that ASI loader + Limit Adjuster would get a free pass all of sudden.

TLDR: unlocking FPS would be like opening Pandora's box, especially since you'd have to use modifications that are currently forbidden, if you want to keep it consistent for everyone. I personally like it when SA runs with 60 fps fixed, casually, or even 75 since my monitor supports it, but it's a different topic.You wouldn't speedrun Skyrim with 144 FPS either, since it's locked to a max of 60 FPS and beyond that game physics are just a suggestion, not a rule. But maybe someone intimately familiar with SA implementation of Renderware can cover that one better.

The "Frame Limiter must be ON" rule is a restriction. I fully agree with Blantas, while English_Ben makes a good point as well. I have a 144Hz monitor, so if there were a 60 FPS restriction, I would have a hard time meeting that requirement (best I could do is VSync Half, limiting me to 75 FPS, which isn't half, I know ...). A comparison to IV was drawn before, but in that game the use of external framelimiters is less of a choice.

Let's do away with FPS restrictions. I don't know of any significant gameplay differences between FPS-counts like 60, 75, 90, 100, 120, 144, etc. Someone who chooses to play without the frame limiter on while also doing ES dupe is giving themselves a guaranteed timeloss having to turn if on (and back off), while supposedly giving themselves the ability to pausebuffer away dialogue, if they didn't have that ability already.

At least with AMD drivers, you can limit to whatever framerate with whatever refresh rate, so you could get 60 FPS on a 240+ Hz monitor. Or you set your monitor to 60 Hz via windows/linux settings before starting the stream. IMO someone who knows the engine well should do extensive tests to see of there is a significant difference like with older GTAs, and after that we could discuss actual pros and cons of going with no frame limit.

Timing: Completely agree with this, only problem seen so far with this change, is that waiting for the cutscene to end will save some milliseconds as Powdinet mentioned, but seems to be a smaller issue that taking control in a black screen. Also loading bar seems like a decent idea, no one has mentioned if that is definitely consistent yet though, but sounds good.

WR Rules: Harsh rules for everyone, as much as I feel there should be leniency for new runners, and for it to be easier for new runners, sadly SA is complicated when it comes to a ruleset, and things get too subjective when you allow accidental cheats and NG+ is allowed for people of a certain criteria. Note: KZ made a AHK script that fixes the accidental cheats (at least for PC K&M players that i know of.)

All Missions: English_Ben has a point 'All Missions' isn't All Missions, but then again 'Any%' isn't exactly any%, (can't use cheats) so maybe that doesn't matter. I don't think that the semantics on what is 'A Mission' or 'A Story Mission' matters all that much as long as rules are objective and make sense. Also, something less important but would be nice, is that it isn't close to 100% or NMG, what thriving mentions sounds fun, and people are behind it, so I think we should just be listening to objections to that.

No Videos: I am for leaving the old runs with no videos up, they were once verified, they aren't high up in the LB, and it feels bad removing peoples runs just because of twitch, this go against my harshness in rules earlier, and seem contradictory, but I believe they fall under innocent until proven guilty, their runs followed the ruleset of the time, (at least according to the mods that verified them) and the ruleset hasn't changed drastically enough to really cause an issue in my opinion. Note; Can someone write down all the runs down first(if someone hasn't already) just for the history(I know changes were made, but just making sure this has been done.) Tier4Jean had a good idea with "The museum of ancient historical runs".

Flying: The evidence doesn't seem to be substantial enough (correct me if I'm wrong) to give him a ban/permaban right now, until substantial evidence is found, allow him to come forward to prove his innocence, but I do completely agree with the removal of his runs, this may again seem contradictory, but this shouldn't be innocent until proven guilty, he has cheated before and I believe it is logical to be more than skeptical of him, and to believe he needs an explanation before the runs are put back on the LBs.

Frame Limiter Change: Honestly don't know enough, not sure how often it will be implemented into runs, and whether or not this will become needed to go for WR runs, but I don't like what it could do to IL's, and I'm mainly just scared of the inconsistency it could bring(although I am ignorant to how it affects the game) there is just a lot of worry from me.

TL:DR: 'Timing' cutscene ending seems good, 'WR Rules' same for everyone, 'All Missions' what thriving said, 'No videos' preferably leave them alone(I know changes were made), 'Flying' he needs evidence for runs to be back on the LB, but don't ban/permaban him yet, need more evidence, what has been done so far with flying makes the most sense, 'Frame Limiter Change' no, but I know almost nothing on this.

1. Timing on cutscene skip seems the best solution to me
2. WR rules to all runs, no cheats allowed for everyone
3. All Missions - what thriving said
4. I don't like the idea of messing with FL, keep this rule
5. Keep the runs with no video, but not on LB

Timing should start at cutscene skip to keep it more consistent. If it's slight faster to start at cutscene end, would somebody want to watch 3 minutes of the first cutscene everytime you start the game?

Accidental cheats should NOT be allowed in my opinion, it would be too much to work around (eg. faked to be accidental). We do have KZ's AHK script helping against that.

Frame Limiter should be kept at the same for everyone. Even if it's a game option, it would be logical to keep it "On" for everyone in my opinion.

"Timing already starts at cutscene skip so I think that´s the way it should be written in the rules."

No, it doesn't. If this was the case why would we be discussing it? lmao

there are people out there that are not showing their splits on screen (or using splits whatsoever) so definitely not everyone is following that rule ;)

@English_Ben nobody uses rules but autosplitter, so it's obvious timing already starts at cutscene skip. why would you ever discuss it lolololol