how do you expect us to submit to a website that is not intuitive and ancient that makes us email them an account creation and submissions like its 2002 i rather just not do il's anymore then at that point

It's called dedication... If you want your PBs to be verified, public and known, then you also have to be willing to walk the extra mile in order to do so. I can assure you, that if you email Andyo, you'll get a reply the next day. Sad to see you go like this man.

If you don't want to email, you can post on Doomworld's Doom Speed Demos forum, and it will automatically make it there: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/37-doom-speed-demos/. You don't need to email an account creation there. More intuitive leaderboards are coming with DSDA 3: https://www.dsdarchive.com/.

All of the records from the IL leaderboards are mirrored at the DSDA, so the only losses were PBs, and probably the majority just random E1M1 demos from people who didn't submit anything else afterwards. They were not kept up to date, and the task of doing that would be a headache and a lot of effort for something of limited value IMO, when much more pressing tasks like bringing up DSDA 3 or even writing some guides or anything else for this community is still needed.

I understand you're used to speedrun.com and want to use it, but likewise, the majority of the active player community for this game is used to DSDA, so please understand the rationale behind this decision; we're just trying to unify this community and avoid disconnects between too many different leaderboards as has been the case since the leaderboard here was created.

I understand the value of submitting demos, and the redundancy problem with having to the keep same records both in DSDA and in speedrun.com, which can get inconsistent over time.

That being said, there is another factor at play here: spectators.

I don't speedrun doom, but I do love the game, and I find it extremely interesting and entertaining to watch videos of speedruns of different categories and maps. However, there is NO WAY I'm going to install a source-port just to run demos in order to watch a certain playthrough - the video format is MUCH more accessible to 90% of the spectators that don't actually run the game.

For me, that's a HUGE advantage of speedrun.com. It brings spectators and possibly new players. People who run other games and know doom (well everyone knows doom), get curious and want to check some videos out. They will never do so on DSDA or the doomworld forums (which are certainly very organized - I'll give you that), but they are not as easy to explore and as 'hot' as speedrun.com. If a new player/spectator has to resort to DSDA just to know how it's like to run doom, they will most likely give up.

I don't know anything about DSDA 3, but having very easily-accessible videos is a very strong selling point, IMO.

Unfortunately you can't really have one without another and have that run "accepted" by general doom community. You can record demo only and then produce video out of it later, with prboom+. And demo goes as primary source of info. For visual stuff there is ofc "DSDA on YT" youtube channel, ran by Zero Master, which uploads relevant WRs from time to time. Also as story tells - most people care for WRs only, and rarely care about ILs, unless they are told "HEY THIS IS GOOD" (examples would be - shock's 8s e1m1 or Looper's Chasm, since Karl Jobst made indepth videos on those). And even less people care for WADs outside of publically known ID software releases.

As for longer runs, there usually is a video provided anyway, since it is completely understandable, that 99.999% of people who watch speedruns, won't even check what's going on on dsda or doomworld. So you'll see big runs instantly ported to YT, and there still is nothing wrong with it. But this video comes from demo and demo is the only source of truth, so we just can't ignore this forever.

Question goes - should we "enforce" both video and demo to allow run to be hosted on speedruncom, due to how many people just click pages and watch stuff, and unless it is a video, they won't bother; or should we allow demo-only submissions. And I already said my take on that in another thread.

Is there anyway to upload a video and a .lmp file to speedrun? as i totally understand the sentiment behind these decisions, but as you say 99% of speedrun fans wont visit dsda, and is there any point of uploading to dsda anything but a wr on a il run? its not organised like the golden eye elite for example where newer players can upload runs that may not be wrs but can see where they are ranked and gain the interest of other players/fans. and thats the advantage of speedrun.com for Doom runs, the wider audience, for example i dont see Adam Williamson playing anytime soon, but people like yourself, mooman, depravity etc i only became aware of because of speedrun and i can watch you guys live. i do think that DSDA Should always remain the official repository of world records, but times that can be verified as legit, that are recent and good times but not wrs, i think should have someway other than you tube of being brought to the audience. for example iv watched a snes doom player turn to pc and get a 4:33 ITYTD E1, and altho its not a wr the the man has the talent to challenge for it, again i would not be aware of him without speedrun.com and he doesnt have an account at dsda yet. just an idea but if runs are legit and say within 25% of a wr (eg e1m1 wr 8s, accept runs to high 10s) where as there would be no hope of seeing them on dsda, speedrun could be just that.... and ya never know someone may find a new strat on a non wr run that could help us all. i mean in the 100 meters people watch more than usain bolt... and thats boring, games are fun.

I'm a spectator, and I came here to just watch IL runs for fun. To see different strategies and how the runs progressed overtime. I was disappointed that ILs were removed from this website, the DSDA website appears to have very little structure and I find it to be a mess to navigate. I don't want to sign up, I don't want to submit anything, I just want to watch a series of runs without it being a chore to do so. I feel like you've made a mistake. At the VERY least, the mistake is removing the IL leaderboard before having a suitable replacement with structure and cohesion. If you disagree with me that's fine, but that's all I want to say.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqcYluu5zm7uqBNGL8kextA You can watch this YT, if you want ILs, it has all up-to-date IWADs and more.

As to how you submit .lmp to srcom - upload to dropbox or some other cloud service and put a link in description.

Looking back 3 months ago from now - removing the IL runs was the most unpopular and contradictory decision that you took as mods of this game on speedrun.com.

Before, there were new runs almost every week and people playing and competing regularly. If you went to the list of games in https://www.speedrun.com/games , and sorted by "most active" doom 1 would be easily in the first page - in the top 30 most run games. Now it has literally zero players / submissions in the last few months. With this decision you killed this game in speedrun.com

If things weren't organized, don't delete them, find a way to organize them! There were other alternatives to solve the problem, such as: only allowing video submissions of runs that were also submitted with a demo in DSDA. Removing the board was an absolute extreme.

I agree. While it was expressed to "why" it happened, it was also overreaction on my end to getting annoyed with all talk on that topic, so when "nuking LBs" was proposed for like 3rd time - I did actually went with it, cause I got annoyed.

Truth be told - those who actually care about doom came to discord and started doing runs and became good at it to the point of high competiteveness. While srcom page definetelly died off completely.

Looking back - I should've done something different, enforce extra rules. But it was also time when I didn't have much time to do this stuff and noone else (who's eligible enough for it) wanted to do anything with this mess.

So I might think of something in upcoming time, cause I want it to be accurate, but I also want this page to be more alive. Maybe bit by bit it will come back. Maybe I'll ignore the hell out of it.