Any% No dupes
6 years ago
United States

@crazycharlieh mh is lovely. He's done a lot of growing up, as have I, and a handful of other people, over the years in this community. I miss his streams and wish he was live more often. They bring me back.

I don't think he should insinuate that a discussion with traction on the forums "won't change anything" and then term a nondescript group of people in the discussion "crybabies"

That's not moderating.

On topic. Any% No Major Skips is a great idea.

@S popularity for a run is a poor factor for adding it. Not having it on main boards can stunt growth.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
rodge, BackmadeJay and 3 others like this
Florida, USA

and at that same time having " old " runs on a new category on the main boards to me isn't attractive and that would hardly say the current status of that category as i said people i've talk to about this category they've known of the "meme" board and don't see it as legit and let's say i have a run that fits the criteria ( i don't and just using this as an example and yes i'm a controller boy ) but i had Ginput on a year ago and wanted my run on the boards even though i didn't submitted it before would i be wrong? well if you look at the current rules now yes i would be but not a year ago or even 6 months ago now there isn't that many " controller boys " on the boards for this to be a concern but i say if you want your old run on a new category just redo the run or ( i forgot who said it ) at minimum yourself resubmit that run don't make the mods do all the work. now let me just say i see i'm out Number here and i won't continue adding in the same comment over and over as that is annoying and i'll apologize for that.

Edited by the author 6 years ago

@BackmadeJay this is why I'm in favour of a resubmission and not by default approach. Stuff has gradually changed, and not all runs would be eligible.

BackmadeJay and KZ_FREW like this
Friesland, Netherlands

@KZ_FREW As I mentioned earlier, the category in my opinion (and those of the mods I think) fails to meet any other factor that'd warrant it's adding. Hence why it needs to be popular. It is most certainly a good factor, just not the only factor. (Read my other post)

Massachusetts, USA

Wrote out some guidelines.

  • Category name: Any% (No onmission Flag Manipulation)
  • Rules: Same as Any% with a note on the bottom saying "Any glitch that affects the onmission flag is forbidden. This includes mission duplication."
  • Runs: Every Any% run that exists that fits the rules should be added, past or present. Runs should not be in two places and the pre-duping runs better fit this category, even if at the time it was the normal Any% route.

The name can still be referred to as dupeless; nothing's stopping you. However, the name and rules can't simply be "Any% Dupeless" and the rules being "no duping" because people's ideas of duping extend beyond what duping is, e.g., gang territories skip. If there are issues with what I wrote here in terms of the name or rules, then they can be ironed out.

Also, this category cannot coexist with All Story Missions. People wanted ASM as a way to run the game without dealing with dupes anyway. The name/rules are somewhat inconsistent, and I get the feeling people would far prefer this anyway, if given a choice. If this category is added, All Story Missions is going straight to GTAMemes (or the trash can).

England

I still don't agree with the naming nor the rules of ASM. The run itself is fun to do but with how the rules state now I personally don't mind what happens to that category. It is one of those runs where I only compete with myself and just used the board as a guideline for goals.

Tennessee, USA

I think a lot of people, myself included, would prefer Any% Dupeless. I guess we could just call it that without that being it’s official name like you suggested. The name is already Any% Dupless on the Category extension board and it has never caused any confusion. The name =/= the rules. I don’t think anyone has asked for the rules to simply state “no duping” obviously this category would not allow GT skip and that would be reflected in the rules. Just seems like a common sense approach to keep the category the same name it has always had and the ONLY name I have ever seen to describe such a run. Everybody is going to call it dupeless I’m sure so why make things technical, that’s what the rules are for.

Ark likes this

I think the OM0 specificity still runs into the problems Josh mentioned. I think Dupeless% or No Major Glithces% is better with the rules being abstracted more comprehensively.

I'm not sure why ASM would have to go to make way for it, at least not immediately. Fair enough if in 3-6 months it's got no traction, however it doesn't seem like an either/or thing, there's a lot of room on the header for both for the time being.

LaserTrent likes this
Friesland, Netherlands
  • Rules: Same as Any% with a note on the bottom saying "Any glitch that affects the onmission flag is forbidden. This includes mission duplication."

What about glitches that occur without the player having manipulated the game to do so? Stuff that happens accidentally like G4L.

Massachusetts, USA

@S. I think that was discussed in Discord and someone suggested judging on a case-by-case basis. I say it should be treated the same way as an accidental cheat (reject), since in principle it's the same thing.

Edited by the author 6 years ago

I'm not really sure how it'd stifle any% progression. At the moment you only have 2 people in the same ballpark, and I don't suppose they'll stop running any%.I don't think Patrick or Nick will stop looking for new things either.

Norway

@ryedawg "While i think running a category that is slower is dumb It is no more dumb then not running a category because it is not on the main leaderboard"

So every games on speedrun that has an additional category with a rule that doesn't allow a major glitch that stays into gameplay for most of the time? What I don't get about that statement is that even through it's a bit longer, you still try to run the game as FAST as you can with additional rules that means you need to finish the main story missions that progress through the story without skipping any. In my opinion, it's not a meme and I think it would fit more into the main boards.

"When you move this category to the the main leaderboard you will see a steep drop off in runners doing Any% thus killing the progression of the game."

I really don't see that as a fact because people who don't wanna run dupeless could still run the normal Any%. Why would people leave by having this category added while it doesn't affect how the normal Any% runs in any way?

United States

@ryedawg I'm mailing you the bill for my counseling because I think your post has actually damaged my mental health.

If adding a restriction to a speedrun makes it fun and interesting, it should be done. This is why those categories exist in the first place. No one wants to boot up ALTTP and clip through walls for two minutes to beat the game. Not everyone wants to just warp to the end of chambers in Portal.

If someone finds a run more fun by adding a restriction, more power to them. People should be allowed to speedrun however they want, and not be chastised by people who parade the idea "why do you want to go slow in a speedrun" because that's a horrible attitude to impose on others, and it implies that some categories have more prestige than others. Absolutely not.

Moreover.

[quote]If any of you who defend this Leaderboard change where are your runs on the leaderboard?[/quote]

What does that have to do with it? Why does someone need credentials to have an opinion? Why are you attacking the individual instead of their position?

To help you understand your flawed arguments, I've linked appropriate reading. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Edited by the author 6 years ago
LaserTrent, Thunder, and Zachoholic like this
United States

I'll defer to @tduva as his stance is pretty much mine.

[quote]As for having it on the main leaderboards: I don't really see an issue with adding it. It's a pretty reasonable category to have (as long as it is defined well!), because I feel people interested in the game (not just runners) will be looking for it ("Hey, I wonder what the best time without all those crazy glitches is like?"). Isn't that what speedrun.com is about? To give people access to information, both on what times and runs there are and forums/guides. Even it the category is not very active, it still informs people about the fact that it's not very popular compared to any%. Maybe it will even get people into running it.[/quote]

So you think it should stay in a board, that's significantly harder to find, because of rationale that would also apply to categories like 100%, to remain purist to going fast?

Shit son never take off that Sonic costume.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Lithuania

@ryedawg There's a difference between someone not answering your question and you being too ignorant to accept the fact that there is an answer - just because you don't agree doesn't mean that your question wasn't answered.

KZ_FREW likes this
Norway

@ryedawg

Your question has already been answered. I'm done wasting my time to tell you that again.

California, USA

[quote=ryedawg]If any of you who defend this Leaderboard change where are your runs on the leaderboard? The only people who can be taken serious in this fourm are the following[/quote] Who cares? This isn't something like the ginput thread where randoms that don't run the game tried to brigade the vote. This has mainly been taken up with members of the community that actually run the game.

[quote]get BTFOed brainlets[/quote] :(

There is already a place that the runs are found so I don't see a reason to add the category. But I don't run the game so who cares what I think.

Amazing how a simple discussion thread can blow up into a flame war wew lads.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
United States

You've posted seven times on this page. I think you're the only one bashing on your keyboard here.

If you yourself weren't a small brained ape, you'd probably realize the merit of the discussion we were having until you came along. Like @lelreset has already told you, just because you don't agree with others' reasoning doesn't mean there isn't value to it.

Tennessee, USA

Yeah thats what I thought, I guess we are done here then. BTW that was a hell of a post and you almost swung me.

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