So, since i'm currently writing with several people about a possible Any% Legendary Category (Beating Hades on Legendary from a new Character file) i thought i'd open up the topic for some open discussion.
I'm Currently trying the Templar (Dream/Defense). Most damage comes from Reflecting enemy damage (Dream and defense both have a skill which throws back 60% of the incoming damage). Combined with some decent equipement and around 10k HP (and some DEX for evasion) you can get a quite good result. Currently i just passed the grey sisters in epic, Typhon in epic was no big deal, so i have a quite good feeling that it will work out the whole way.
So, now that I slept and am in a better mental condition to tell my experience on any% legendary Nature/Spirit.
Act 1 normal:Rush Parnassus, take nature tree and basically get everything from it (except maybe the plague bomb), summon your pets set them as aggressive (I don't know if it is the default behaviour or not but I set them as aggressive), go to athens, kill all the gorgons on your way (I always did that in normal and epic , I was hoping for a stonebinder cuff), your pets will get you lvl 8 by athens, go back to Parnassus, take spirit and take deathchill aura and its upgarde, death ward, summon outsider, dark covenant and its upgrade, liche king and its upgrade, and circle of power. You can also take spirit ward later with the points earned during the game. as for the stats 10000 health, 300 strength, 300 intelligence, 1000 dexterity as base stats shall keep you safe.
Find a mastery shrine as soon as possible to have 3 wolwes,.Run using dark covenant and refresh.
For the bosses, just drop everything on their faces, Circle of power>briar ward>(plague bomb?)>summon outsider>dark covenant refresh> repeat. They won't last for long.
By the way, Briard Ward is a great skill angainst the machae in the tower of judgment and hades palace to wall off your pursuers in the stairs and avoid getting killed if you get stun.
As for the stuff, I would recommend boots of campagning (well of course +31% movespeed I won't spit on it), and anything that will give you -%recharge time. For the boots I think that we have no choice but farm the shops until you find one or drop one.
For the missions, I decided to do every mission which were "on my way" such as killing the big peng on the Great Wall, killing the yeti (for the pet bonus obviously), finding the chest just before the olive grove, the stygian lurker, killing the big satyre which blocks the wayat the beginning(not in normal) etc.... I was also killing all the champion/hero monsters on my way to get a bit more experience, I don't know if it's worth it of not. I was almost lvl 40 when I finished (2,6k experience missing)
After the boss fights I always opened the majestic chests, mystical orbs, essences etc... in hope to find some good items and also to sell the yellow/green useless items to the shop to have some money in case a great item was in a shop( campagning boots, -%recharge item....) and also to buy potions in the epic atcIV/ legendary.
Overall I diedededededed 19 times, most of my deaths were at the beginning (before Parnassus glitch) because I'm bad, I mean because of the RNG, and well I mostly died because I was not paying attention/ was tired, but no real difficulties in surviving a specific boss.
So in the end my Ingame time was 9h19, real time was about 7h, but I took quite a few breaks during the run, some maybe RTA would have been 6h30 if I had done it in one shot. And also my computer can't really keep the fps at 60, so I don't know if it influences the speed of my character or the in game time measurement. I am also bad at this game, my PB in any% is 1h54 so yeah maybe tiger you could easily save 1hour RTA (which is 1h30 in game time?) which will bring down the time to 7h49 in game time. I also have a poor knowledge on the game and on the optimal path to speedrun.
But well this was way easier than expected, no real troubles^^ . So if someone wants to try my build go ahead, bring in your improvements and Have Fun ^^
Edit: Tuck Fwitch, it didn't turn on the notification fo you stream automatically ><
Edit2: I am watching your replay of yesterday, maybe one advice, try to use the quick pick up when you open a chest/essence to automatically collect gold/potion/relics, I think it is a bit more clear afterwards to pick up items, but maybe that's just a personnal preference
So I did a run today in any % legendary, you can find it here in approximately 6 hours (a bit more to see it in HD I guess).
So my RTA was 6h08min, a bit better than the 1st try I guess.
I had problem on typhon legendary, I think we'll have to figure out to force him into some "easy" rng, on my first try on him he kept regenerating with the red breath so I couldn't kill him, then I died, then I went to buy potions ... well in the end I killed him but I lost 15min there because of the initial RNG (or maybe I'm just bad, the fight should be around 5h15min).
I have a question concerning egypt, can we use the hand of balance and eye of chaos from normal into legendary and epic? it could save some time there. We'lll just have to defeat the big sandwraith.
Could also tell me all the tricks you know in the game? Because i'm new in speedrunning it and I just played thisn game casually some years ago.
I was thinking in investing in frenzy scrolls on normal to have speedboost in order to run a bit faster if we are not capped (I was lucky I got campagning +34% and one epic hermes relic, I think it is worth it to stop by the shops to find a campagning if you only have a journeying/traveller).
You also feel the rng of the loots, I dropped less good items for my resistances than in my first run and I felt weaker.
Ok that is all for now, as I've just finished the run I don't see anything else to say about it. I'll be glad if you can take a look at it (or even try it by yourself) and share you thoughts.
Good night :D
Edit: Oh boy, it seems to be actually possible to get 3 times the items in the egypt and then reuse them without having to do the walking part all over again. I tried with one of my any% characters and I just dropped out the objects from normal on the ground picked them up and it worked. Juicy time saves. Do you know if we can clip through the doors/wall in this game?
Wow, nice that you made that run... i gotta watch it (cant do it right now, since i'm at work and i wont get home before 8PM). I guess we have to create the category now... i'll do that as soon as i saw the run ;)
I was aware that you can re-use the Questitems, but i didnt consider it yet, because i wanted to be sure that the Any% Legendary can be done first before discussing further strats. Actually you should be able to do that with the Eye of the Greys aswell. This could be a quite good timesave since you need around 3-4 minutes to get to them once.
I didn't check the frenzy scrolls yet so i cant tell how long they last. the actually might be an option for Any% normal depending on the cost, bonus and duration.
Yes, RNG is quite a factor in this run. You need to get some loot, and you need to be able to wear it, so also levelups are really necessary. Maybe we can set up a route, which quest are worth getting during the run that we can make sure to be able to use the items we find.
Tricks... well... there really are not that many tricks in this game. The most stuff i foud out were minor Route improvements (like Entrance at delphi where the guards are, you dont have to get to the guards, you can bypass in front of them). It really comes down to memorizing the route and then going through it as fast as possible. I wrote a guide fopr the any% normal some wekks ago for the german community. I might get it up to date, translate it and post it here in the guides section, maybe that is some help.
So i might try a Any% legendary soon. Not today, but maybe this weekend.
As for the frenzy scroll they a good bonus 35% movement speed during 90 seconds and with a coldown of around 3 minutes and a half which is really goos if you are not capped in movement speed yet, the major problem for any% is that you havbe to be lvl 21 to use them, their price is 130k gold. We should aim to get lvl 37 in any% legendary to be able to use the greater scrolls of frenzy (+41% movement speed).
For the parnassus glitch, as I was recording my CPU was pretty close to 100% all the time and obs was marning that my CPU was overloaded but it is actually cool because the 0 fps lag time lasts longer and you can put more points, on average I was at 23 (in the cave) and at some point it lagged so much that I got 46 points or so, maybe could be strat to overload our computer at that point of the game to get more points I don't know.
Oh yeah killing the grays only on normal is a nice idea too ^^
Actually not having a lot of protection is ok because you can have close to 20k HP easily, the main problem is to get campagning boots, I only got them during the epic part of the game, before I had journeying (~+20% movement speed).
1000 dexterity is defeinitely enough to not get crited, I only got crited once by the minotaur boss in the labyrinth. I think once you have boots of campaigning you can put all your attributes points in health, having stuff or not does not really matter( except if it's some stuff with -% cooldown)
Edit: btw is it possible to force typhon into doing some specific attacks or at least force him not to do its health draining attack?
Just started a run with the nature/spirit combo. Seems quite good, also trying stuff like early quest-Items and lokking, which sidequest are worth getting. I am right after Gorgons in epic right now, didnt have more time for today.
But i guess this run does not represent the "normal" dropluck... had the Druid robe (blue Chest armor with +1 on all nature skills) at the Cyclope... and...
I guess you get what it is even with the german name... just got them in epic with nice +10% elemental resistance.
So I also tried the frenzy scroll and i have to say, it does not work out well. It might say it gives +35% movement, and actually it does, yeah. The thing about it is: you have +10% from heart of Oak, +10% From Wolf Buffs (with 3 wolves you get it about 70% of the time), and you have the Dark Covenant/Refresh combo which works out very well. There wasn't really a time where i had less then 155% movement, even on normal... and i guess for an extra 11% the scrolls aren't worth it. At least on Epic with Campagning Boots it should be done for frenzy scrolls.
So personally i havent tried with typhon strats so far since i mostly played fighter chars with very good damage-output. But I went through some videos and as long as something like this works we should be fine i guess.
Holy shit that rng....
For Typhon I tried to do this, I did it 10 or 15 times today and seemed pretty consistant, basically you have to drag typhon behin the red statue, make the liche king tank typhon then circle of power>summon outsider>dark covenant>recharge>heal liche king>(summon dead pets?)>repeat. Be careful don't use the bushes because if it comes to use its life absoprtion technic it will also take the life from the bushes, healing him for almost 1/2 of its life.
I would also like to try Nature/dream but I feel that the nightmare pet is weaker than the liche king even with the transe of convalescence giving everyone 15% of damage reduction.
Well i just finished my test-run... 7:57 ingame-time... 2 deaths overall. Well, i don't have a RTA Timing or video since i didnt finish it in one setting.
That time sounds crazy... I really would expect that the Any% is far longer then 3x Any% (which would be 4h30min) I guess i'll create the Any% Legendary category and put your run in as soon as i looked over the video. Let's see how far we can get this down.
Ok, thanks for adding my run.
And I watched your run on the points which interested me (leveling and your typhon legendary fight).
I don't under'stand why you put so much intelligence. Do you want to deal damage actually to the the ennemies? I mean it wil work in the early game but without any steroids your damages will be very poor in my opinion, if you want to do this maybe take the triarnon attack with the upgrade in the spirit tree, it could be a bit more worth it.
For Typhon in legendary before entering I would kill the cyclops following me because they just are a pure pain in the ass and it allows me to respawn my pets wait for my cooldowns to be over and I can go in.You just can't afford to aggro Typhon. You just can't. As you experienced he deals a lot of vitality/elemental damages and without resistances it is hard to tank it actually. Just let the liche king tank it, it has 70% damage absorption and 33% physical resistances, but for that you have to keep healing the liche king. The advantages of this method are that you can spam the circle of power and dark covenant for your liche king and other pets( I don't know if the circle of power stacks but you can basically do circle of power>outsider(inside the circle)>dark covenant(inside the circle)>refresh(inside the circle)>circle of power(inside the circle)), the aura of the circle and of the dark covenant gives your liche king and other pets an incredible damage boost.
Actually that times when you think about it it is not that crazy since you just have to level up once and that's it, then it's running, the bosses are not that hard even in legendary in my opinion, they just take a bit more time, and you have 30% boots at the beginning so yeah, it sounds normal to me ^^.
Speaking of boots, for how long do you consider farming boots at the shop to be worth it?
Anyway maybe I'll do a run in the week (maybe my last since after I'll go back to my parent's house and that there I have a 0.6 Mbps up ..... So yeah not really fun to upload a video of 5 hours).
So, why i put that much INT in... i had 2 reasons in mind: a) higher energy regeneration (INT in fact improves that) and b) the ability to wear legendary INT-based armor, some of them got quite good resistance bonuses. Now i also know that the 800 base INT was a bit over the top, around 400 should be enough since the energy-regeneration-bonus is not that high.
And yeah i know that i need to train legendary typhon, that fight went horrible for me. As i rewatched my run i also noticed that there was almost no boss fight where i used the circle of power. I Should definitely improve in this point.
So about the boots. The boots are what i call a "delaying point to save time". In the old Immortal-Throne Any% we estimated that the 20% boots save around 15 minutes in the run, so if you dont use the boots you lose around 15 minutes. On the other hand you cannot say "when i dont get the boots for 15 Minutes i just move along" because in that case you already lost 15m trying to get the boots and you will lose another 15m because you end up not using them. So in Total we got to that point that since the merchants can have the boots each time you re-enter the game it is ALWAYS better to farm for them because you can not know before that you will be that unlucky not getting the boots in the round about 30 tries re-entering. that was the example for the Any%(IT) run, but the same point applies to the 20% and the 30% boots in the Any% legendary. For the 20% Boots it should be around a 10 minutes time save which would be around 20 tries in Knossos. That one should definitely be worth getting it all the time. I am not quite sure how much time the 30% boots save over "only" having the 20% boots. Especially since it can happen that you only have 4% differnce in movement speed between them (upgrade from 24% on journeying to 28 on campagning). So, depending on how much time the campagning boots save over the journeying in average, Compared to the number of tries you need to get the campagning, the answer might be anything between "most worthy getting them right at the spartan camp in epic" and "not worthy getting them at all" (which actually i doubt that one of these extremes is the solution for this.) I personally went for the Campagning boots just as i do it for journeying. I check all merchants that can have them. If i don't have them by knossos i start farming. Looks like a decent rule so far, but it might get optimized.
Hey there!
Don't know if there still someone reading this but i have a question:
Did someone try a nature/earth combo in this run? Feel like it could allow you to brute force everything with spell if you have enough health, wich should not be a problem anyway cause the earth guardian can tank almost everything(especially if you heal him)
I planning on trying it myself anyway, but some advice could be welcome :)
So since Someone (coincidental with a similar name like you ;) ) asked the same question in the current WR vid and I answered there... well i'll just copy/paste the answer here, in case someone else is interested:
To be honest, i never played the earth mastery really much, that's why i didn't consider it for this run. But i have some points where i assume that Earth might be not as optimal as spirit. On thing you should keep in mind: No matter what you find in a speedrun, you will have a quite weak equipment, so if the bosses on legendary attack you, you're pretty much screwd. That's why the Liche King basically does everything in legendary. I know that the Core Dweller is also kinda tanky, but it's not only about being tanky, it's also about doing the damage, otherwise Typhon might be a bottleneck on legendary. The thing about Typhon is, that he has a life draining spell. Even if you have 20k+ HP he can just oneshot you with that one since you normally have no resistence against it. In the anniversary edition the bosses tend to focus you more then in the old IT version. Because of that you basically cannot deal any damage to typhon if you don't want him to attack you (which you don't, trust me), so the damage to get Typhon down has to come from the core dweller alone. Second, Spirit has the Outsider, which is a second pet with very high damage output that Earth would not have. I can't tell how good the earth spells are, but the outsider is often the reason why i get the bosses down that fast. Third: Earth has no additional movement speed. TQ Speedruns have a high focus on movement speed, since you are running pretty much between the bosses. That's why it is efficient to cast Dark Covenant from Spirit very often, just because of the movement speed. Since Earth does not have a movement speed spell, it should be slower than spirit.
These points are all assumptions... but the best way to find out is just trying ;)
Thanks a lot for your input! I also just finished watching your WR, and thinking about it i indeed overestimate the importance of killing bosses fast and i underestimate of much running there is :p Learned a lot of tech from it tho, really good run.
Concerning Typhon, I don't have that much experience with the anniversary edition so i don't know how much more the ennemis focus you, but the core dweller normally actually has some kind of "ennemies beacon" abilities wich made it basically impossible to get focus on you in the IT version of the game. I hope it still there somehow cause if not my run gonna die before even making it to legendary :p
Well only thing left is to test it!
