Is the legendary time of 4:54 possible?
4 years ago

I think you guys are hating a bit to much on nicky here, basically what he's trying to say is, with CURRENT known strategies, there is no way that we are going to get it rta, especially since the sum of best isnt even a 4:54, we still need to save a framerule (which are only possible in 4-2 and 8-2) and even if that does happen we still probably wont be able to do it for a long time.

Please remember the sum of best is 4:55.096 and the WR is 2 framerules behind that (about). The 8-4 required to get a 4:54 isnt even possible, if we did a perfect TAS 8-4, 4:54 would still not be possible since we only save 3 (or 4) frames based off of maru's tas.

Overall, the chances of getting 4:54 is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly low, if someone were to calculate the amount of attempts for all IL times currently combined + the 4-2 framerule attempts, added them all up together, then it would probably be somewhere very high, so people should realize that right now, and probably for the rest of the year, 4:54 is highly (and currently, impossible)

New Hampshire, USA

The 8-4 needed for 8-4 isn't impossible, it's just really hard. For NOW we're not gonna get it RTA. The 8-4 needed only has to be 3 frames faster than the fastest 8-4 done in a speedrun (which is Kosmic's 4:56.462). So you can just do 2 backwards accels in 8-4, out of the 4 that you can do. Wes also lost 14 frames compared to the optimal 8-4. Which means we can save around 0.2 in 8-4 alone.

The only thing that really keeps us from getting 4:54, is the 4-2 clip. But the clip is theoretically possible. It may seem hard, but the inputs are likely human RTA-viable. Since humans can do both single-frame and frame-perfect inputs.

Where did you get an extra framerule save in 8-2? I don't think that's in neither of the WR analysis videos. And I've never heard of a framerule save in 8-2 besides the 2 framerule save of BBG. I'm wondering if humans can perform FPG like BBG. Since BBG is just Mario hitting the flag block by using a bullet bill. I know Ace's video was an April Fools prank, but since sometimes you can get FPG on accident while going for BBG, I wonder if humans could (at some point), do FPG in the form of BBG. 🤔

Ohio, USA

@Mars02 I'm pretty sure Owen is talking about the stupidly precise method of saving an additional framerule in 8-2 by using absurdly optimized movement. You would have to do a fast accel, an extremely difficult jump on the pipe after the large pit, and perform BBG on the first possible frame. I don't know exactly how many frames of leeway you have when going for all of this, but I do know that it is very small amount, if any at all. Bismuth talked about it in his second SMB WR analysis video: (If the embedded timestamp doesn't work, then skip to 24:31 in the video.)

Edited by the author 4 years ago
mouseman likes this
New Hampshire, USA

Hmm, must've not remembered it. My bad. 🤔

There is a way of saving another framerule in 8-2 by doing a perfect fast accel, a stupidly fast plant jump, getting the FASTEST possible bullet shot, then jumping on the bullet as early as possible and hopefully saving the framerule.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
mouseman and Lul_ecks_dee like this
Alabama, USA

@Mars02 I Was saying in my forum post that 4:54 is not gonna happen, and we have literally looked at EVERY line of code in the game to see and find glitches, I will literally applaud the next person that does find a new glitch that saves time, with current strategies 4:54 will not happen, for more info about my opinion look at @Owen5560 's comment a few comments above this one

Edited by the author 4 years ago
mouseman likes this

@Novawolf the leeway (if you do it perfect) is 2 frames, which means you can rule out the fast accel and do everything else perfectly. The way to do it absolutely perfect is:

  1. Do a perfect fast accel as soon as you start the level.
  2. Do an ABSURD pipe jump that has never been done before
  3. Land on the first pixel of the bullet bill

@owen5560 Thank you for expanding on your opinion from earlier But hold on a second, there's no way you could have 2 frames of leeway RTA after saving a framerule in 8-2, otherwise that would be way way way way way way way more RTA viable and in fact that would be more considered much more doable than 4-2. Also in the video it says "the main problem with the 8-2 framerule is that just like 8-1 there are no frames to spare", so I'm curious, where did you get 2 frames of leeway from?

New Hampshire, USA

You can't say something isn't possible. I don't think humans have looked at all the codes in the game for all the glitches. And I don't think we have found all these glitches by running through the game's codes. The 4-2 "TAS" clip is theoretically possible by human. Just because we haven't done it yet, that doesn't mean it's impossible. And with 1-1 FPG, 1-2 Pipe Clip, 4-1 FPG, 4-2 "TAS" clip, 8-1 Framerule Save, 8-2 BBG & Framerule Save, 8-3 FPG, and an 8-4 that's 3 frames faster than the 8-4 in Kosmic's .462, (which can be done by doing everything the same BUT with an additional 2 backwards accels - saving 4 frames) the human best possible time is (theoretically), 4:54.98.

Edited by the author 4 years ago
Lul_ecks_dee likes this

@Lul_ecks_dee the 2 frames comes from happylee's (or marus) no l+r tas.

Lul_ecks_dee likes this
Texas, USA

I don't know much about if this is right or not, but with the current strategies a human 4:54 probably won't happen. It probably will happens some day, though, I'll give it a few more years.

mouseman and Lul_ecks_dee like this
New Hampshire, USA

I'd give it to the end of 2020, but I do agree that it won't happen anytime soon.

Michigan, USA

If anyone can get 4:54 my money's on Aldyn

LeKukie, Lul_ecks_dee, and zsjetu9 like this

if anyone does actually manage to, they will definitely be known forever in the smb1 community as the first person to ever match the same second as TAS. After (a lot!) of years we will finally reach the final, unimprovable, second.

LeKukie, Lul_ecks_dee and 2 others like this
Ukraine

If not wait on the title screen, do double fast accel and hit enemies as no L+R TAS doing, it would be a perfect shot even with different pipe jump inputs. Even though it is not too hard to do in TAS, I don't think that it is possible without save state, because hitting one of the koopas is tricky, and perfect backward jump for fast accel seeming to be useful only on keyboard with L and R priority setting inside emulator. I'm now finished my version of no left+right TAS WR, where I saved all the actual frames by myself and used a fastest strategy for 4-2. Perfect 4-2 in no L+R TAS is not only saving lightning framerule, but saving 9 frames more. The RTAble turnaround at the warp zone is just 2 frames slower.There is also a question, if perfect entering pipe is possible to use. To enter pipe perfectly, don't hold B and hold right, that would slow the speed down immideately, like for 1-2 clip. Then press L for 1 frame and perect down press. Not seeming to be useful in RTA, but people already used very hard setup, so may help. The hardest part of it is top birck clip, which I'm not really sure how to do in RTA. 8-4 is as almost completely optimized in current IL world record and it is not gonna be enought for 4:54. So, right now I don't see any perspective of this happening in single-segment run.

@owen5560 Bismuth said himself "the main problem with the 8-2 framerule is that just like 8-1 there are no frames to spare", you might be getting confused with the L+R TAS. If there were frames of leeway then 8-2 would be considered either equally as hard as 8-1 or even easier, as you only have to do a perfect fast accel (instead of double), an extremely good pipe jump (that you can even lose 1 frame on) and perfect timing of hitting BBG (which is not that hard, just a couple frame perfect jumps. We do FPG all the time)

Even HappyLee has said himself that he has tried to do 8-2 framerule save RTA, and was unsuccessful because it was just still too slow even with 1st frame shot of bullet bill (which I just as equally don't understand as both his RTA rules TAS and Maru's RTA rules TAS get the optimal 8-2 framerule)

Please, if you have evidence that you can have 2 frames of leeway after beating 8-2 literally perfectly without using L+R, show us, because that would be absolutely 100% revolutionary for future 4:54 attempts, as that would be the go to framerule over 4-2.

raymondamantius likes this

@Lul_ecks_dee I'll try on Monday I know someone said its 2 frames

raymondamantius likes this
United States

Here's my updated graphic.....if the image embed works. If not, nevermind.

somewes did .796, which is exactly 0.700 from the sum-of-bests. If somebody gets 8-1 (0.350), plus 4-2 (0.350) which has never been done by a human, they are still 0.096 (6 frames) over a 4.54. So they would need to run 8-4 at 6 frames faster than somewes, which is 3 frames faster than any of the latest record runs.....but still 15 frames slower than the 8-4 IL record.

https://ibb.co/Rp0w4x0

Edited by the author 4 years ago

@owen5560 I asked Maru, and he has confirmed that there are 2 frames of leeway if you beat 8-2 perfectly without L+R. This means, that you don't have to do double fast accel, you would only need the normal perfect fast accel. It would even leave you with 1 frame of leeway at the end if that is when the bullet shot. With this 1 frame of leeway, it takes off just that much pressure from having to do the pipe jump perfectly, making it just that much easier (a little bit)

Knowing that you need perfect fast accel, an almost perfect pipe jump, and perfect BBG, 8-2 framerule is most likely an easier framerule to go for than 4-2, making 4:54 just that much more viable for those people who will go for it in the future (whoever they are).

LeKukie and zsjetu9 like this
Game stats
Followers
7,783
Runs
8,789
Players
1,781
Latest news
Requirements for High-Level Any% Runs

Any% (NTSC) runs below 4:57.000 must now fulfill additional requirements in order to be verified.

  • The run's full session must be included in the submission description.
  • For emulator runs below 4:57.000, some form of input display must be visible for the duration of the run. A hand-cam or input
3 months ago