Switch version
5 years ago
United States

Ok, that does make sense on the 2Frogs1Block setup, not pulling the crab block all the way to the far right. I had a decent run the other night and choked because i got 1 step ahead of that setup and forgot to stomp the 2nd bug off the ceiling xD

Oh, I agree, TinyFrog Hatch is more convenient to go with on Switch, it's what I've been trying recently. Not only the Lavafrog stomp delay ... but also the fact when you walk off the TinyFrog platform you don't have to take that long drop and wait for a bird to carry you back and such. You fall 2 steps from the AncientFrog "crystal ball" device thingy when you walk off TinyFrog's platform. My only issue with it is I'm trying not to use so many Switch version advantages, but at the same time there are some Switch disadvantages I have to deal with along the way :P

And, for 99% , some of the puzzles I first considered "luck" based to get optimally I've come up with some decent setups. but the one I know is going to be a constant pain to get properly optimized is this one after InvisibleFrog ...

https://i.imgur.com/StAEBLW.png

So many things can just go wrong in an instant, here

Netherlands

but also the fact when you walk off the TinyFrog platform you don't have to take that long drop Ha, I didn't even think of that. As for comparing the versions... I'm afraid the differences are just too numerous. (The caged firefly and the pre-fed frog in the invisible frog area seem like a big help.)

Yeah that one is a pain. One thing I thought of: when you first go to that frog pit, the frogs are all facing different directions and talking to each other. As long as you don't whistle, few frogs will see the berrybugs when they drop, so they don't clump together as much. Not much of a help, I know...

United States

Gotta wait for confirmation/review, but got a 37 minute Any% run in last night. Got the early hornbug skip first try, and saved a huge chunk of time. Add in the fact I didn't die several times in the Lava area and ended up with almost a 5 minute PB, altogether.

During the week and such, gonna just do some test 99% routing and runs. I'll try and figure up a decent setup for that dreaded frog puzzle after Invisible Frog. your idea makes sense though to keep some separated and not whistle to group them (which is what I've been doing).

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

Congrats on WR! :)

To the left of the giant frog, I keep the berrybug at the same level as the green frog, so that he sees it and runs instead of walking. I've eyeballed the timer and it seems to save about 2 seconds.

I wonder why you're having trouble with the lava redirection puzzle... I stay on the right side of the ladder and stomp once, then go.

Good luck with 99%!

United States

Thanx a lot. :) All props to you for the basic routing to go by, and of course Vulajin. Really appreciate the feedback and tips on some of the gameplay mechanics you shared with me that I didn't realize when first starting. The hornbug skip in the intro is a bigger time save than I apparently assumed, close to 30 seconds, in fact. But now I'm pressured every run to get it or reset lol.

The Silhouette cave portal bug always trolls me :P

And, ok, that makes a lot of sense with the frog and bug before Giant frog ( think I was paranoid the bubble wouldn't reach and never considered it). Not sure if you noticed but I try a setup like that with Upside-down Frog ... rush to the right and get the bug on the ceiling to make Upside-side run to it sooner ( just forgot to spam whistle in my PB to keep the bug still).

The Lava flow crab block spot, not having too many issues with it now that I've pointed out visual cues for myself ... but I usually do have to climb the ladder back to the right to get it positioned right; or I end up being to slow getting the other crab block down before the Lava gets to the spot. Unless you mean once the block interrupts the Lava flow, it stops the lava on the left side as well. ( EDIT :: just skimmed your PB, and ya I feel dumb now. ) xD looks so free that way and I guess I just never paid attention when working on a setup for it.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

Yup, nice upside down frog strat. I made the same mistake.

United States

LOL! Touche ;)

Also, this is twice I've accidentally gotten this bug that was stuck to the side crate at this spot. ( would be nice to know how its happening cause its perfectly setup for a frog bubble spot for that puzzle)

Also, when you mentioned there's a sound cue for the last wing token collected ... I know the sound cue for the last token collected in an area; but is there a different one for when all are 100% collected. I never paid attention for it. I guess I'll find out soon, fixing to take a stab at just a generic preface routing attempt to have a reference to look onto. Then get a more optimal plan in motion.

And, if the "discover the toki of liberty" achievement is considered for 99% verification, would saving the town cave tokens for last be more ideal? Reason I ask, which I'm sure you already know ... the tokens have to be evenly deposited into the 4 statues, and cant put them all in just one "D'oh"! Doesn't seem ideal now that I realized that :P

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

I think there's always one bug stuck to the crate, but he drops down when you stomp. (When they drop the are always right side up.) But he doesn't have a chance to fall to the ground because the crab is pushing him sideways. The only difference is if he happens to be on top when you stomp. Otherwise he'll just get crushed.

Yes, there is a separate noise when you collect the very last token in the game. Here (@6:55):

The statues take different amounts of tokens. I think each takes a fixed number. The southern one takes very few; I think this is intentional, so that it will always activate when players encounter it in their casual playthrough. There are tokens to the left of the northern statue, which you can only get by dropping down from the rock. This means it's probably best not to do that one last, because it would mean you'd have to get up there twice. There is a warp point next to the western statue, so if we activate that early, we can easily fly back there to deposit the last tokens.

There is also the question of whether you even want to visit the crystal in 99%. It activates the molehills on the "main route" from the start of the game to the crystal. (Kind of the "tutorial part" of the game.) I think the reason for this is that the developers didn't want to confuse new players, so they postponed opening them until the player reaches the crystal.

After getting the wings, the only way to get to the statue of Tokity is by going through the cave again, which is very slow if you can't use the cave's molehill.

I'm not sure if Tokity is a good idea now. After all, it's just as arbitrary a goal as collecting the tokens without depositing them.

United States

Ok, just did a test run. Had a couple fumbles along the way but now have experience with an actual 99% run and video I can watch to see what works and what doesn't. Ended up with a 2:30 , but one of the tokens didnt register being collected ( or i hit "reset level" too soon and 1 of the 3 didnt register at the frog/portal puzzle spot we talked about resetting to avoid the bug , the area before upside side frog.) So with that it's around a 2:40 just for a test run with that missed toekn at the end lol [EDIT::: WOW! just watched my replay, and ya, you have to wait til the token disappears before using "level select" or won't count as collected ]

Absolutely agree, Tokity achievement is not necessary. And my idea baout the wings door; having to deposit the tokens is way out of the way and would take serious planning to conveniently drop of the right amount at certain ones lol. If we're going to possibly do achievements for ease of confirmation with "fresh save files", the "Wings of Luxury" (all wings collected) would be perfect, because you would get it during UpsideDown frog area, then Upsidedown Frog would activate the endgame cutscene. confirming 99% in a short time span at the end. Or just use that sound cue (I'll have to remember to shut up on stream when I'm about to collect the last one )

There is 1 convenient mole hill I use to grab 1 stray wing token (if you happen to check out some of my testrun, it's around the 1 hour 22 minute mark). Even though it's probably faster to just grab it normally than going to the jewel for the molehill; but remember we want molehill for the endgame with the frog portals to skip the need for a bug (unless that activates on it's own). So I just use the TinyFrog portal for the quicker fall and exit after ( but I don't go straight to TinyFrog like in any%, I do a complete loop around the southwest map.) not sure if it's ideal, but it's the path I've worked out and seems to be ok. And I'm suppose to do Giant after Tiny, to make my warp locations closer, but got jumbled and did some of my warp areas out of order xD

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

we want molehill for the endgame with the frog portals to skip the need for a bug (unless that activates on it's own) Each pair of molehills unlocks when you reach the "furthest one" of each pair, EXCEPT those molehills on the main/obvious path from the start of the game to the crystal. So if you only use the one near the bubble portals and those in the pink blossom area, you don't need to visit the crystal at all!

United States

Ohhhhh, ok. I knew about the molehills before waterfall cave not activating during some testing and just assumed that was the case for later molehills. Now I get what you mean by intended route and those earlier ones don't activate til you're expected to first visit the crystal, casually. So, if the later ones do then awesome. Ya, no need to visit the jewel area, then.

United States

I kind of fell of the wagon with none of my runs being verified. So gave it a few weeks and went ahead and requested Mod status today. I know the game isn't popular, but you deserve it as well so if you want Mod status over the board as well let me know. Made some text changes to category rules so let me know if those make sense.

Gonna try and get back into more runs this weekend, hopefully. Gotta test a new 99% route diversion I thought of in my last run attempt.

Netherlands

Good changes imo. I don't need mod status for now, but I wouldn't mind of course. I'll watch all your runs either way.

I'm halfway through your 99% (U)WR, and I already have a few ideas.

In the "frog tunnel" in the West, you lure the frogs to the right and make the berry ride the ceiling. I just put all the frogs left and keep stomping the berry to the right (and making the frogs croak).

In the (short) ice cave, keep stomping on the crab while he's moving. The honker bug will keep jumping forward and the crab will keep following, instead of going back to sleep.

When you whistle but a bird doesn't see you (or you're in a nest), he lingers for a while. However, if he chases you but then loses line of sight, he IMMEDIATELY returns to his default spot. This is what happened at the "grass growing tutorial" (left of pink blossom). To buy time, wait till he drops you in his nest, then whistle once. Don't lure him too far to the right. Once he sees & loses you, he's back guarding the field.

Here's the invisible frog collectibles strat I mentioned earlier: Can be made faster and safer. (I took an unnecessary risk with that 2nd bubble; should have turned him around.)

United States

Ok, I see what you meant with it, and omg ya, that bubble was too close xD Speaking of which, I've found a decent setup for the bubble frog setup at the Westside edge of waterfallcave.

At the start, just get a bubbled frog and bug up top and left of the crate. After that is done ... the 2 bugs in red, stomp and chirp to keep them still when they fall and 2 frogs eat them. make sure the bubble frog on rightside bug faces left. the visual cue "rock" with blue arrow is a safe spot to stomp to get right frog to send leftside bubblefrog, intact, up on the crate.

https://i.gyazo.com/416af70f52dccb2c75d21db105c192a5.png

Makes sense on the frog tunnel, I probably just made it harder on myself cause you first have to bubble up for the 2 tokens, and just naturally went with sending them all to the right ... which ya, makes no sense cause you have to lure the bug to the right as well xD And, ok, I'll try that out in the ice cave.

That part with the growing grass I just got rekt out of nowhere cause that part was never a problem when practicing and just couldn't figure out what went wrong.

A big route divergence I'm considering, and I mention it in my submitted run, after activating the 2nd warp pedestal is just follow the SouthEast path all the way to the waterfall cave and to Town. bypassing the (horn bug , frog+bubble, 4 Birds ) puzzle, and just warp there to get the Bird to grab me while falling into the area (labeled [2] on this map posted below ); and then clean out the entire southwest area of the map from there.

This is somewhat the route idea I plan to test next , warp songs are in red circled numbers and where i warp to are in blue boxed numbers (in order i would use them). With the Purple letters showing area doors that link to areas further away.

https://i.gyazo.com/145307b72a6f87a11f9a3a4eba4622a9.jpg

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

Sounds like a nice setup with the frogs, cool if it is consistent. (You know, when a frog eats a berry, its position seems to get "rounded" to the nearest tile. Let's hope one tile more or less doesn't ruin it.)

Route looks solid!

(lol I just typed an elaborate plan involving going right from [3] instead of left from [2], but I just realized there is a wall so it's one-way only :p The only way to get from the left side of the map to the right side is the starting path. Otherwise any% would be a lot faster.)

United States

Yup ... pending on what direction they're facing when they eat the bug can change their tile positioning ... I finally picked up on that while figuring up a decent strat in the Waterfall Cave with the frogs you gotta use lightbugs for with the bridge you knock down for the bug, above.

Hahaha, during my early endeavors of mapping a route, I had to draw a solid black line reminding myself there are limited spots that access the upper and west parts of the map because I kept trying to figure a quicker way to get there.

https://i.gyazo.com/e6de54c8a3c40b5a085f5fa6f018c83a.png

Matter a fact, that spot on the 'current route map' i posted earlier, i use broken lines with an arrow facing up inbetween, forgot to mention those, for me are major map reset points I use. And there are other whistle warp spots and reset area strats I use that aren't labeled on the map ( but those are mostly obvious, when in the game, and are hard to label on the over world cause the game map isn't as detailed as it could be :P ). Like the broken line just above the red circle 1, is simple warp back to the nearest warp pedestal on the same path, etc ...

United States

Really wish we could "split" topics so we could separatethese 99/100% strat discussions in it's own topic. May just need to do that at some point and make a fresh topic, and copy/paste some of these new approaches to puzzles/areas.

Been workin on some ideas for this spot, where I wanted to go ahead and have the 2nd berrybug ready for the frog on the right; but the frog has the chance to eat the bug while at a higher position than the frog on the left messing up the bubble setup. So ... as shown in the video, taking the couple of seconds to grab the block and set it at the bridge ( use it if right frog is higher than left frog in addition you can grab the wing token between the portals doing this saving a lil time as well). Or leave the block on the edge if the frogs are positioned correctly from the get-go. Excuse the music, listening to it while practicing offline and wanted to record this setup ....

And this spot, on the MidWest of the map ... using the frogbubble to get the thin crabblock and largeblock in position almost before making your first trip up with the bird instead of having to juggle most of this stuff with multiple bird trips. A few missteps happened but the gist is there.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Netherlands

Cool strat with the falling frogs. Doesn't work on PC, unfortunately.

On keyboard I can't wake up the crab while falling. When I use a controller, it does work.

I have this other strat. Pull the big block to the right and aggro the lizard. When he crashes, the thin block will move two tiles left. Then stand on the thin block and make him push it off. Reposition the blocks, and aggro him again. He will only mow the leftmost part of the grass, so the frog is safe. Then just wait for him to pass the frog and make him mow the right part of the grass. https://i.imgur.com/97q8WBG.jpg https://i.imgur.com/A4rK61p.jpg https://i.imgur.com/GHyUKnm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/A1rmy5P.jpg

Alaska, USA

I'm sorry for inactivity, i was saving money for speedrun.com donation.

United States

No worries, man. The game has been dormant of runners for over a year. I do plan on sticking with it, just summer and my working hours has forced a break from running games for now. So if it's all good, you just manage the series overall, we'll keep up with TT2 boards. :) Lot of new stuff discovered recently and plan on trying to find more optimizations when more free time comes around.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
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