Potential need for NG+ or no glitches categories
3 years ago
Michigan, USA

been playing on patch 1.04 and the slop boosting trick is all but dead for console. To keep things fresh as a speedruner i feel its worth mentioning a new category or new game plus or even no glitches, maybe a 1.04 and beyond any%. Just food for thought because the new patch made us all crazy i think its a good idea to make a ng+ and count the time from start all the way through picking the next level the whole time would count making it fun and exiting again to play

California, USA

You do realize there is a no major glitches category, right?

yote, Brandololok and 3 others like this
Michigan, USA

That's no major glitches I'm asking about No Glitches or a segmented % like new game +

California, USA

I'm not gonna speak for any mods at all but I will speak my mind on the matter if that is okay.

NG+ as cool as it would be to have, I can't see a proper way of it happening since you would have to exit to the main menu and go through each level that way, and that's just really tedious. Unless there's another way and I just don't know it.

As far as no glitches. Dude, there's literally a No Major Glitches category specifically for people who do not use glitches, I fail to see how you do not realize that.

Tricks such as using the meathook to swing yourself is NOT a glitch. If anything, maaaaaybe a sequence break, but the more I see it, the more I feel it was an intended mechanic. Clearly you have never seen a NMG run, I advise going and watching one yourself before trying to say NMG and the no glitches you are proposing are different.

crelmtoothpaste likes this
Iowa, USA

For what it's worth, that's how NG+ was for Doom 2016, you had to play each level manually and it did look pretty tedious. It was a category, though, and a few people ran it!

diablo7 likes this
Iowa, USA

I never ran it, personally, but I think the timer kept running in the menus as well and didn't stop till you started loading a level? Not totally sure on that.

United States

The issue with NG+ is that the game doesn't refill your ammo when you load a level through mission select like in 2016.

California, USA

Infitnite ammo cheat being allowed wouldn't help either since you can literally cheese your way through with the bfg. That takes literally 0 skill.

CreeperHntr likes this
Pennsylvania, USA

Diablo, if you really want to run any% glitchless and don't feel No Major Glitches is "glitchless" enough for you (to me the only real difference is its name, and I do dislike how that confuses people from understanding it's basically the glitchless category to no fault of their own), then just run any% glitchless. No Major Glitches wasn't established on speedrun.com and THEN people ran it, it's the opposite. People run the categories they want, they garner interest in the community (such as the speedrunning discord), and then when enough people are running it (usually it only takes like 3 consistent runners) it's considered for having an actual leaderboard, either on the main boards or as a category extension.

If you want any of the categories to become a thing (NG+ or any% glitchless) then just run it and have fun. You can even make the rules for NG+ yourself, and if people seem interested work on the ruleset with them to make sure everyone is enjoying it as much as possible. Worse comes to worst, you have fun playing the game the way you want to. But the category won't "just appear," people have to run the category before it can "become official," which to be honest I hate that term because any type of run you do should be given the same merit as something like normal any% or NMG.

Just enjoy running the game and don't worry about the bureaucracy of it all, and it'll all fall into place.

Spirits, diablo7, and CreeperHntr like this
Michigan, USA

In regards to ng+ you would just start timing yourself from the first level and end the timer when the final cutscene shows or when you reach the main menu after completing all the levels its as simple as that. Regaring your no major glitches answer: using the meat hook to go out and up into the sky so high you only see the sky box is a major glitch. Using it to do such a thing is why its called No major glitches. Im saying in a no glitches category the super meat hook glitch and how its used in the nmg category should be banned. Meaning no glitches hows that hard to understand? No glitches means no glitches.

Michigan, USA

since this games speedrun rule is they don't count load times you can technically do a NG+ by just recording the in level gameplay just like a iL run or single segment run.

Michigan, USA

thanks for the clarification bloodshot9001, I will do that. My next run will be as such and I will submit it and let the admins of the website figure out where it goes. Until then I'll either add it to any% or nmg since it is glitchless as you mentioned.

Pennsylvania, USA

For the record, using the SSG Meathook doesn't allow you to go out of the map and "only see the skybox". It doesn't usually give that much height, not without pairing it with something like bumping into a ramp or something, and even then the act of going out of bounds (such as "only seeing the skybox") is also banned. That said, the other tricks that use Meathook do skip large sections of levels, so if you believe the act of skipping those sections is glitchy enough I can definitely understand that view point! Just want to clarify that we don't simply replace "slope boosts" with "meathooks", as that would definitely defeat the point of NMG.

And definitely add your times to NMG or any%! NMG runs were initially submitted to any% before getting their own category, so it's definitely the best way to do it. I wish you the best of luck in the runs, I'm excited to see the routing around certain fights that we normally don't get to see. :)

diablo7 likes this
Michigan, USA

Thanks for the heads up bloodshot, I just got a run done and added the ruleset in the comments. I always looked at the meat hook as an extention of your height but going super high from it seems over excessive but I look at the Hell on Earth as an example. The very first caco demon you see after killing the priest is at just the right height to meathook to the normal out of bounds area and im unsure if that is considered any% or NMG. I think its NMG because your not glitching to get there kind of like the rocket launcher area in cultest base were you can grab on to the top of a pillar and skip the fight. Both seem to be the same level of meat hook to me. For sure I look forward to seeing how this turns out maybe it will become a new catigory ill have to make rules on for any% but to make it fair I think current patch is a must or at the very least on slopeboosting in either any% or NMG for NG+ categories.

Michigan, USA

Well I literally put rules like aloud cheats(specific ones), no slopeboosting, allowing sequence breaks as long as you can jump it without balista boost. Things like that. I also made it a rule that you need to run on current patch to not allow slopeboosting. Stuff like that. I think it will catch on especially when I submit several NG+ runs. Only time will tell the rules I set forth for it are fairly straight forward too.

Should run a category before asking for it to be on a leaderboard. Even then, you shouldn't expect it get one, or even catch on with other runners; especially if the rules are arbitrary. The closest thing to NG+ are the ILs. NMG (Full CR) is what you're probably looking for.

Michigan, USA

Seems my run was denied because it was not a brand new file and there were no cohesive rules... how many times adding my ng+ runs to the board will it take for the admins to actually look at my run as legitimate i mean the rules i laid down ain't different to understand. I was told this "NMG run are from a new game file with cohesive rulesets" ...i guess this is where it all starts for ng+ runs. I added this same run to any% in hopes it gets evaluated better. Till my next run for ng+!!!

No Major Glitches - Classic in 2h 27m 58s* by diablo7 - 7th place New Game + RULES:

  1. Only 2 bfg shots per mission unless there's bfg ammo then you have your default 2, plus the bfg ammo in said level.
  2. Categories are any% is patch 1.04 and up and no glitches which is also 1.04 and up.
  3. Sequence brakes are allowed however only if you can make the jump. Meaning no batista boosting to make an otherwise none existent jump. And it goes without saying no Slope boosting Jumps because patch 1.04 and up. However the slide jump used in exultia to reach the chains for air dash is allowed.
  4. Complete the game as fast as you can.
  5. Time starts when you enter the file in question and Time ends when you reach the main menu.
  6. You can complete each mission in any order you like except Hell on Earth must be first and Final Sin must be last.
  7. The use of Cheat codes are allowed however only infinite ammo, idkfa, all runes, overdrive and quad damage are the cheat codes allowed. You can use party mode and quake con cheats if you wish as well.
  8. Any difficulty is allowed. Except extra life and ultra nightmare.
United States

We did look at it, and the run didn't follow the rules of the category you submit to (or any for that matter).

United States

your run is being denied because you are submitting a run that breaks the rules of the category you are submitting it to. making new categories can be a thing, if you have several runners and a ruleset that is consistent and makes sense on the leaderboard, but that is not the case. and just submitting invalid runs to other categories and getting mad on a forum when they correctly get rejected just...isnt how any of this works.

Spirits likes this
Michigan, USA

Who said I am mad? There's no new game plus which is why I suggested it on a thread because it was a great category on doom 2016. Bloodshot even suggested what I should do. Which is what i am doing. Im not going to stop speedrunning new game + and there's a whole community that would love a ng+ but unfortunately doom eterbal has no such game mode so if im the person to start a movement to create such a category then so be it.. I've already set forth great rules for the category. Its up to the admins of speedrun.com to decide if its a category or not because I'm not the only person running it that's the law of averages. If one person speaks up there's thousands who won't but feel the same way. That's just science.

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