General Rules
4 years ago
Limousin, France

Yeah indeed I'll put it in standard karts, seems more logic. And I hope the another mod will agree :D .

Andet likes this
Switzerland

Well, always testing the rules I see... The current ones would forbid it with "Geometry (3D models) modification are not allowed".

It would be reasonable to accept this, but if we start to accept 3D Models modifications, it can become very complicated to handle the diverse cases and that would be why I would like to stick to the very strict rule about it.

Like what if someone drives a kart with a weird 3D Model (or I don't know, a Nintendo character model) that yet has the same Hitboxes as a standard kart, or if someone wants to change Bananas to another Model, etc, it would make the verifications more complex and subjective.

Alayan, FabianF and 2 others like this
United States

I didn't realize model changes were so different from texture changes. I think what you said is reasonable then.

Limousin, France

"Well, always testing the rules I see..." Are you serious?? You really think I've to lose time here because the rules aren't enough clear? And not my fault if this edit is much better than the current one... Hope you'll retire this stupid off-topic sentence...

There should be a rule modification in my opinion, because there's no unfair advantage to use it... Something like "You can /use a standard kart edited by/mod a standard kart with/ a 3D or 2D software if the hitbox, the speed and the character stay the same." What is unfair or not logic here?

Also you have to trust speedrunners because there are too much ways to cheat...

Cape Verde

If I am qualified enough to speak about this, IMO having a ranking/leaderboard and at the same time trusting players to not do something bad can lead to leaderboard abuse (if there is a sufficient number of players, of course). I'll just mention here STK Ranked and proven facts of what nascartux and romanian vpn users have done, and it will be enough to show that.

Alayan, FabianF, and Wax-stk like this
Limousin, France

Not sure you get what I mean, moderators MUST trust players, because there are many ways to cheat. I'll not say them here but it's probably possible to cheat a whole speedrun so moderators have just to pray... Because they can't find these cheats...

Edited by the author 3 years ago
FabianF likes this
Switzerland

No, I am not serious, you need to relax.

I rewrote the whole Modding section by focusing on the few things you can do and that everything else is forbidden. I removed the mention of "Unfair Advantages" so nobody else would think that any "Fair Mod" should be accepted, but such reasoning was flawed at the first place. For your case I already explained everything, and also why your rule modification would not be a good idea.

The cheating/trust issues are known since long. We should just trust each other by default and not cogitate much about cheaters, while doing the verification work correctly. Else we would already be ruining the atmosphere.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Alayan, FabianF and 2 others like this
Limousin, France

Oh lol sorry, indeed I need to relax :p . However not sure to understand why you reject this idea... And that's not cheating... Also I completely agree on the cheating issues (that's rare lol).

FabianF likes this
Switzerland

Well I will then explain in a more concrete way. If we start to accept what you suggest, then we will have to handle cases like this. https://videos.supertuxkart.net/videos/watch/9464070d-5a58-447a-b753-1cccfb5b32ea With your rules, this run would be perfectly valid. No Unfair Advantage, No Cheating. Though it could still be rejected with the No Gameplay Modification rule. Maybe it would actually be acceptable for you, but certainly not for me and most people here. If we start to accept 3D Mods then we will have to define what Mods are "acceptable", adding a subjectivity level and starting new debates that would probably bloat the rules. Thus, the best solution is to not accept any sort of 3D Mod.

I actually did the video before, but given how you reacted to my other post, I hesitated to show it.

Alayan likes this
Limousin, France

Well well well, toujours à forcer toi ;D.. Lol you can simply add a rule like that : if an edit makes the moderation difficult, we'll reject it...

Also why a rule here? The one who wants to make a run with pidgin edit for example has just to ask on these forums if it's allowed or not... So accept or reject case-by-case... no?

Also if this edit is accepted in the main game will you forbid 1.2 ? Lol

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Switzerland

Really? I am done man, at this point please just accept the rules without any question. Be already glad that some Mods are allowed here, I think that in basically any console game nothing would be allowed.

Alayan and Wax-stk like this
Limousin, France

Yeah ok...

Limousin, France

Btw fun video ;D

Switzerland

Just a reminder that Debug Mode must be disabled. That said I still accepted the latest submitted run (https://www.speedrun.com/stk/run/m35wp0dy) despite the Ghost Replay being under Debug Mode. There is no way to know if Debug was activated during the actual run, but Afaik, in ILs and if not using the tools, it will gameplay wise only affect the start and actually make the turbo start harder, so I chose to be lenient here.

When 2.0 will be released, Ghosts will no longer be accepted. This will clear confusion about invalid times, reduce cheating possibilities, and one can reasonably expect from runners to play using adequate hardware and recording software. So starting from now, I encourage runners to always submit Live Recordings rather than Ghost Replays.

Alayan and Andet like this
Veneto, Italy

Is live recording with artist debug possible? While racing a ghost, the startup is normal

Switzerland

No, it is forbidden, please disable Debug Mode for runs. Normally, I should have rejected your ghost as well, but chose to accept it anyway as there is no way to know if Debug was enabled or not in the actual run (which is also yet another reason to ban Ghosts as it is really prone to loopholes like that).

skindoormimiz likes this
Switzerland

I just added a "Sub-version" variable for 1.x runs to distinguish the different versions. Git corresponds to a Stk compiled from source after the stable version (so 1.1-Git is a run in a Stk using the Git code after 1.1 and before 1.2; 1.1-Git would also include things like 1.2 Rc1). Mods will not affect the version. I reviewed all the 1.x runs and gave them a Sub-version, according to the ghost's dialog, the video's title, or the date, though sometimes I had to guess. The difference between 1.1 and 1.1-Git is often the ms Timer when there is no other way to tell them apart. Usually the Sub-version is just informative, but in some cases like Full Runs and tracks like Xr591, they are relatively important as there are some differences that have notable influences.

Andet likes this
Limousin, France

About the finish line bug, https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/4144 I think if you modify the time on some tracks because of checkline bug, you should also modify the time for this other bug. (Lol I'm pretty sure my ravenbridge mansion record is sub-1:39 but I can't do better for now and for a long time.) Also, this issue will probably be fixed in git/1.3 [Alayan-stk-2 added this to the 1.3 milestone 2 days ago.]

Switzerland

The other one is adjusted because the 1/24 s is just free and broke the idea of actual time elapsed, and the correction is a simple and systematic 1/24 s addition. Here, the correction would need to replay the run Frame by Frame, which is not the actual issue, but if we start to adjust for this then why not adjust Xr591 1.0 runs, runs when you collide with random walls, or for any other bugs... Probably other runners also thrown away several runs because of this... You will do another Sub 1:39 or even 1:38.5 another day or when this will be fixed...

Alayan and Wax-stk like this
Limousin, France

Lol you're not sweet :D. "Here, the correction would need to replay the run Frame by Frame" Sowhat you're moderator, just require a ghost replay file or a high-framerate video for these cases. "runs when you collide with random walls" Wait that's really different and I don't see any "random" wall in that track... And if it exists I don't think developers plan to fix that for now. "Probably other runners also thrown away several runs because of this... You will do another Sub 1:39 or even 1:38.5 another day or when this will be fixed..." Well it might be the case especially on Hacienda, but Ravenbridge Mansion is a difficult track that requires more attempts than several others. And I'm not sure of when I'll be able to run that track again.

And don't forget that 1.3 runners might get an advantage of this.

(Then I don't insist more lol.)

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