Feasibility of the big skip - a discussion
Norway

So a warning straight of the bat, this post will most likely be quite lengthy. Also a quick spoiler, I don’t think this skip is actually possible, at least not until something new is found. I am mostly sharing this here to show what I did find and save people the trouble of trying this stuff for themselves to come to the same conclusion as me. And also, just in case someone has some ideas on how to potentially make it work. It’s not entirely unlikely that I missed something obvious.

So the topic of this post is the “big skip”, which I like to call it. I think most people running this game knows what that is, but in case you don’t, the trigger for the final boss is in the first room of the game from the very start. So if there was a way to get up there somehow, it would cut out pretty much all of the game. So it’s a big deal basically.

We know we can get a shot of on the very top ledge, but we would still need to be in a grounded state to take advantage of that. Busker was the first person who I heard suggest a method for getting up there, it involves getting a shot quite high on the wall and then shooting another one as low as possible right before that hits. Now his approach had two problems, there wasn't enough time to get up to where you could shoot the ledge, and even if you did, you wouldn't have enough time to fall, since you would have to fall two whole blocks down.

I figured out how to solve the first problem, you need to run to the right so the shot has to travel further, giving you enough time to get the shot of at the ledge. The second one seemed unsolvable, until Taiyo discovered that Yuri gets into the grounded state when hitting breakable blocks. I figured that if you could break the top one of the two blocks and fall onto the bottom one, you’d half the fall distance, which might make it viable.

So before I started testing the actual trick, I wanted to check how viable it was. I figured how many frames you get to work with if you move as far right as possible before shooting. And also how many frames it takes to fall down to get to the grounded state. Now, I made a mistake here, because in my test it turned out to work out perfectly. I tested the falling when Yuri had quite a lot of downward momentum. When you actually do the shot you have a lot less and falling ends up taking 6 frames too long. Anyway, here is a .gif comparing the two, and showing how perfect it could have been.

https://puu.sh/qRdvX/3dac9acdc6.gif

Now I didn’t figure this out until after I actually tested out the trick, so I do actually have video of it. I did all of this using Auto Hotkey to essentially TAS the game. Now, that does work, but only kind of. The problem is that AHK runs on milliseconds while the game runs on frames (and almost never at a constant frame-rate, at least not for me…) so it is very unreliable. When I had finalized the script it would often take up to ten times to actually make it run correctly. It de-syncs a lot, and sometimes for reasons I don’t the game doesn’t take the input for “x”.

(Run the video at 0.25 speed if you want to see everything that happens... Also, this isn’t the ideal way to do this, as you can see I shoot the last shot a bit early, that shot should ideally happen at the same frame as you teleport…)

I also had a second (and a third, but it’s even stupider, so I won’t mention it here…) method in mind. Which included getting a shot at the top of the slope instead of falling down to the block. This one is not as close as the other one, but I thought I’d share non the less.

(Weird cut I know, but it’s not that important… the shot at the slope happens way too late… and as you can see there wouldn’t be enough time to get up and get a shot at the ledge in that time anyway…)

So yeah, that’s as far as I’ve gotten with this. Like I said I doubt this is actually possible. Maybe someone else can come up with something clever though, but for the moment I’m all out of ideas for this skip.

69_others, MarcyAugust and 3 others like this
Washington, USA
MarcyAugust
She/Her, They/Them
5 years ago

Reviving a dead thread here, but did we confirm that it would be impossible to time that final jump and shot to A. get far enough away that it would register as a teleport and B. would still be carrying the upward momentum from the jump (for the first video posted)?

Norway

I'm not 100% certain I understand what you mean, but I'm guessing you are talking about doing like a circle boost off the ledge? In other words ignore all the stuff I do at the bottom and just jump at the latest point possible, turn around at the earliest point possible and shoot. If that is what you mean, then no, that sadly isn't going to work. I was fairly certain it wasn't, but just to be sure I have now also tested it using the TAS tools.

Surprisingly the height isn't actually the problem, it's the horizontal distance that's the limiting factor. Even if you jump at the very latest possible time (7 frames after leaving the ledge) it will take 19 or 20 frames until you are a full block away from the wall we want to shoot at. The latest point after a jump where you can shoot your teleshot and still get a boost is 14 frames (assuming you are exactly a block away, further than that and you would obviously have to shoot earlier). Any later than that and your upwards momentum goes below the boost factor before the teleshot hits. In short, by the time you get far enough from the wall to shoot a teleshot and hit, you are too far into your jump and will not be able to get the boost.

69_others likes this
Washington, USA
MarcyAugust
She/Her, They/Them
5 years ago

Ahh okay, that was what I was wondering, thanks for the answer <3

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