Double Bladed Lightsaber Glitch (No Penalty)
5 years ago

I noticed on runs people seem to be using crit strike with a single bladed lightsaber instead of master flurry with a double bladed lightsaber because of the attack penalty when you don't have the 2 weapon fighting feats.

As far as I knew there was a glitch in the initial release of the game where jedi could use double bladed lightsabers with no penalty. I've always played using a double bladed lightsabeer and master flurry for this reason, with no two weapon fighting feats.

From a quick search, here's an old gamefaqs forum thread talking about the glitch: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/556553-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic/57356068

If this info is right, do you think a double blade+master flurry approach would be more efficient than a single blade+crit strike approach?

Denmark

I think the Darth Maul mcflurry option would definitely be faster in an IL scenario i have no idea if the average damage would be higher with the single blade crit build or 5 hit build. One of the big downsides if used in a regular run would be a loss of duelling(+3 attack and defense) making the Malak fight more random on top of the already rng heavy fight(it's pretty easy to lose 30 seconds on it), i've also not heard of this on the pc version before, although this could have alot to do with how many people nowadays only play it on steam and therefore only play on the latest patch, it could definitely be worth looking into. (later note, the only crystals we don't have to go out of our way to get afaik are the sigil opila and solari crystals although i could be wrong on that front as i do very little calculation and proper research when i try out stuff for this game, sorry for the text wall :P )

Edited by the author 5 years ago

Hey, Sheepmetal. Thanks for the reply.

True, losing the +3 attack from dueling would be a downside. Master crit strike has -5 defense vs master flurry which has -1 defense, so defense is better with master flurry than crit strike+master dueling.

Since less importance would be placed on critical threat, the Opila crystal could be replaced with a Krayt Dragon Pearl (+3 attack) or Upari crystal (+3 attack).

The Upari crystal can be found on the Unknown World in the Sith Master’s remains. The Sith Master is on the first floor of the Ancient Temple in a room in the northwestern area. He is in the only room linking to the Armory. I can’t remember how out of the way that is.

This link (http://tartarus.rpgclassics.com/kotorpc/210.shtml) lists Malak as having a +12 Natural AC bonus, 18 dex (+4 defense), Dark Jedi Master Robe (+2 defense), Master Jedi Sense (+6 defense), and although master speed is listed I’m unsure if he uses it.

So Malak’s defense bonus is +24, added to the base defense of 10 that means it takes 34 to hit (unless I’m misunderstanding something).

The speedrun character build could be scoundrel 6 (+4 attack)/guardian 4 (+4 attack), master force jump (+4 attack), weapon focus lightsaber (+1 attack), strength is at least 20 (+5 attack), Solari crystal (+3 attack) and Krayt Dragon Pearl OR Upari crystal (+3 attack) which would be 24. You’d have to roll at least a 10, so that’s a 50% chance to hit.

2 of the 3 feats currently being used on dueling could be replaced with implant level 1 and 2.

So the Nerve Amplifier Belt could be replaced with the Nerve Enhancement Package (level 2), which is available on Taris, Tatooine, Manaan, or Leviathan and grants immunity from mind-affecting for 500 credits.

That would free up the belt slot for the CNS Strength Enhancer on Dantooine (8500 credits) which would give +2 to Strength (adding +1 to attack).

I’m not sure how many credits you have when you’re on Dantooine, or if routing in buying the CNS Strength Enhancer from Crattis Yurkal in the Jedi Enclave would be worth it.

I'd have to watch your 1:12:54 run closer to see exactly what your character build is at the Malak fight, and then do math to figure out chance to hit and damage, etc., when it comes to the extra two attacks from master flurry vs the extra damage from critical strike. Maybe I'll do that sometime.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
South Carolina, USA

First off, if this is a bug/glitch based on the game version, we may want to list it as a separate category. A former runner (dr applesponge) played on this version of the game. I wasn't able to get the correct version on my PC, and I even have my old CD copy.

This is an interesting idea, though. Thanks for bringing up this bug again. I haven't looked at the route in a while, so I'm probably forgetting some important things about the build we use.

Losing the +3 attack from dueling as well as the critical hits is the main downside. An increase in defense doesn't seem important to me at all. We have plenty of healing with medpacs and they don't take long to use in a pinch. Maybe I could be convinced of its importance elsewhere in the run, but not against malak.

Other crystal options include Damind (from the dark jedi on tatooine) and Sapith (from the lower floor of the Lehon temple). We could get Damind earlier for a solid +3 attack, to replace the missing bonus from Dueling. Sapith covers most of the lost attack at +2 but also gets us 3 energy damage.

So this link (https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic/Viewing_Platform) shows Malak's defense as 38. It's easy enough to check the feedback for the exact number. Remember that he has both master crit strike and flurry, which lower his defense by -5 and -1 for three seconds after he uses them. I've never seen him use force speed.

One other good point for the flurry route would be less reliance on force speed to do any damage during the few normal combat encounters still in the route. Probably wouldn't affect an optimal run, but it might help with consistency. I remember having several runs where I lose speed and don't have any more force points to cast it again.

Denmark

Most of the alternative crystals wouldn't be worth it unfortunately as we already one or two shot virtually all cannon fodder enemies, or lose time to bosses/the dark jedi trio due to cc rather than not ending fights quickly, so the time saves from the crystals would have to be gained back at the few higher hp boss fights in the run.

Additionally most of the runs in the past year or so have used a riskier buy route that saves up more time otherwise spent buying/looting to be able to afford buying new equipment and cutting down on time spent menuing.

The current build i run with uses a opila/solari lightsaber, a 21 str build at the endgame with knight valor, master duelling/force jump/crit strike, weapon specialization: lightsaber with a set of hyper adrenal stims and an echani battle stim.

One small thing to note is that we can buy an adhesive grenade on Dantooine at Adum Larp to lower Malaks defence by 2 during the second phase fight to help with the loss of the duelling, although it would take about 4 seconds to buy the grenade and to switch to a teammate to throw it with during which we can't re-apply force speed if Darth RNG Hell casts Force Breach.

Also yeah it might be a good idea to at the very least divide the xbox and pc versions as the differences(galaxy droid, lack of a load remover, Malak twi'lek easter egg etc.) are massive, if the bug turns out to work on pc it might be enough to just have the game version listed on the pc board unless more version exclusive bugs are found.

Thanks, Glasnonck and Sheepmetal. I forgot about Damind having +3 attack, I didn't know Malak's defense was 38, and I didn't factor in stims to our attack bonus.

And I also don't know if this glitch has been patched or not, it might still be in effect on current versions.

An Xbox speedrun would be miserable.

Glasnonck, are you going to run KOTOR any% again?

South Carolina, USA

I'll probably relearn the route since the guide is a little out of date. When I do, I'll probably try for a better time. However, right now I'm more interested in learning new games to run.