So I'm currently submitting my any% IL runs and have some timing questions. I tried to time like on some comments on runs already on here but I run into some problems:
- Possible starting points:
- Chopper start: (Some missions start automatically in the chopper some I choose to start from there) If you start with the chopper then the episode Mission screen comes up. The game does not count that to the timer as far as I know, but if we use a starting point before that screen, the chopper option becomes a worse choice.
- Cut-scene start: like Mission 12 It starts directly in a cutscene thats just stupid...
- Land start: It starts after the cutscene with the mission load screen or more common directly after pressing X after restarting the mission.
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Possible ending points: -Chopper: If you leave the mission with the chopper it takes some time before snake gets up and closes the door. After closing the door your weapon disappears. I think it is at that point where the game stops the timer. -land: If you leave the hot-zone by land. The game shifts the camera at some point. I think that is when the timer is stopped. -cutscene: The last thing in the level is a cutscene that one can skip.
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Loading sequences: -Box fast travel loading seems depending on the platform you are playing on. -Cutscene I think as soon as they are loaded it's the same time to skip them on every platform -Loading, after or before some cutscene is a loading period that is also depending on the platform (Mission 30 is a good case)
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Timing category's on this site: Real time no loads: -I think thats the most important category to compare runs. But we need to agree how to time it to make it fair and compareble. Therefor what loading needs to be excluded (all of it might be best). -When to start: What is if the mission starts with a loading thing? Does the skipping of cutscenes counts as player input and should be included. Real time with loads: -Good to see how the platform differs and relatively simple to measure (just a start and an endpoint) In game: -Good in some cases and as a comparison for improvements. Not good for comparing between platforms and also not so good because it can be abused (slowmo).
So when deciding for a method we should focus on those things imo: -close to the ingame timer (the method should give out a similar time as the in-game time in the levels where there is no load or other interference. -easy to apply to the video ( if we have exact defined frames it's way better) -clearly stated for each level (excpelly what is count as loading and has to be cutoff)
Thats about all :)
I would like to know on what we decide so I don't have to retime my runs
I agree with these timings and have verified your runs based on them. Load times and cutscenes should definetly be excluded wherever possible to give ever console a level playing field. Having exact frames to start/end is very nice because this game is kind of a mess with all the different starting/ending locations and conditions so it can be super confusing
Only thing I'm not sure about is why you included the mission opening time as a load time
Great job on the runs btw
Thanks for verifying and for adding Mission 2 :)
I think if the Mission screen with the episode name comes up to the gain control part can also vary from platform to platform ... thats why I included it ... not sure if thats the case though.
On an other note: I saw that dekuking improved mission 49 witch is great because know I want to improve it even more ;) Is it possible to get a notification if a run is improved?
Wasn't actually me who added mission 2 :P truthfully I wasn't aware it was missing before
I'm also not sure if the mission screen varies, will try it out later
If you follow the game, you should get a notification in the top right of the page saying there's a new WR. You can also tweak these settings on http://www.speedrun.com/settings to include emails if you want
come at me bro... noway are you gonna beat that 2:46 by anything then a couple milliseconds... took me way longer then i care to admit to get that time xD
couple things about timing:
if your gonna go frame by frame and get the exact time, dont go rounding down in the end... it kinda defeats the purpose of going frame by frame... please try to fill in the milliseconds on the rta as best you can. an approximate is better then rounding and 03:40.6 is fine... its just so when we get two runs that have the same seconds we can tell which is faster
also if the mission has no cutscenes, loading times or time manipulating stuff (reflex, injury, cigar, etc.) the IGT is correct and you can just use that to time your rta. mission 49 is a good example.
for most missions i think the timer starts on the x press before the mission screen, but for some that doesnt make sense... i adjusted my mission 12 time to your timing, and will check the other missions if i have to change any of them
Ok I did the round down to make up for potential timing mistakes (It's hard to tell at witch frame the door closes and things like that but I will include the millisecond in the timing ... can I edit my submissions? Because I have timed it to .XXX so I can just plug that in. I will also test if the time from pressing x to the control part is the same for PS3 and 4. I will do that with mission 11. Also as long as we time the same way I don't really care how we time it so if you have a better (easier) way in mind I don't mind changing mine :)
Edit: I did the timing: Mission 11 compare: PS3: video: http://www.speedrun.com/run/1zxn1xem 00:05.722 x-symbol vanishes 00:05.923 Dog frame is visible 00:14.414 Mission text completly vanished 00:15.682 first control frame Delta 1: 00:00.201 Delta 2: 00:08.491 Delta 3: 00:01.268 All loading: 00:09.960
PS4: video: http://www.speedrun.com/run/emkg9e3y 00:01.134 x-symbol vanishes 00:01.268 Dog frame is visible 00:09.710 Mission text completly vanished 00:10.878 first control frame Delta 1: 00:00.134 Delta 2: 00:08.442 Delta 3: 00:01.168 All loading: 00:09.744
Result: The difference is very small but existence. Just to be sure I would suggest to start the RTA with the first control frame (or chopper frame) as we can not be sure that it is that close to each other for every level.
EDIT2: Also I just saw that the time for Mission 4 with the instant win strategy is different for the different platforms ... so that means even for levels with no loading or stuff in it the ingame timer can be different ... not much but still :(
Ok I have a suggestion: I defined the timing for each mission below (With as much usage of the In-game timer as possible)
If a mod could read through it change it if necessary and approve something like that as the official timing for New Game + IL runs (maybe make a sticky threat or post the timing to the rule section of the run:
Also I still think there is a version difference between the Platforms but we are far from having enough runs that it actually matters so ... this might be a good solution:
MGS V IL timing
General: In game timer can be used if the Level has no Loading of any kind and no slowdown or use of the Phantom Cigar. If there is a Cutscene (or loading) in the level the timing starts when the player gains control. For level witch start with the mission name the timer starts on the first visual frame of the DD-logo. (usefull for keeping consistency with the ingame timer) Possible Ending points: Chopper door closed Camera Angel change Container extraction symbol vanished Fade out
0 - [Flashback] Prologue: Awakening ¤The platform differences are really big in this one (Ishmael does certain actions simply faster on PC ...) start: fist frame with "move Camera" Loading: black frame after name input 0- first frame make avatar loading: black frame after make avatar - first frame gain control (crawling) loading: black frame after cutscene skip of Tank getting blown up - Begin of chase End: Cutscene start (front view of horse)
1 - Phantom Limbs Start: gain Control loading: Box travel: first dark frame-last dark frame end: chopper door closed
2 - [Flashback] Diamond Dogs Start: Gain Control end: chopper door closed
3 - A Hero's Way In-game timer Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed
4 - C2W In-game timer Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
5 - Over the Fence In-game timer Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
6 - Where do the bees sleep? Start: First chopper frame loading: Cutscene: equipment vanished- gain control again end: Chopper fade out black frame
7 - Red Brass In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
8 - Occupation Forces In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
9 - Backup, Back Down In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
10 - Angel with Broken Wings In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
11 - [Replay] Cloaked in Silence In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: first frame DD-logo end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed
12 - [Replay] Hellbound Start: first frame DD-logo loading: Box travel first dark frame-last dark frame loading: Chopper cutscene: first black frame-control back End: Start cutscene
13 - Pitch Dark Start: first no black chopper frame loading: Box travel first dark frame-last dark frame loading: Öltank first black frame-control back loading: Pumps button vanish-control back End: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
14 - Lingua Franca In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
15 - Footprints of Phantoms In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
16 - Traitors' Caravan In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
17 - Rescue the Intel Agents In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
18 - Blood Runs Deep Start: Gain Control loading: Box travel first dark frame-last dark frame End: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
19 - On the Trail In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
20 - Voices Start: gain Control loading: Cutscene: Camera angel change - gain control End: Camera angel change or chopper door closed
21 - The War Economy In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
22 - Retake the Platform In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: fade out, first black frame
23 - [Replay] The White Mamba In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: chopper extraction -symbol vanished
24 -Close Contact In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
25 - Aim True, Ye Vengeful In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
26 - Hunting Down In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
27 - Root Cause In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
28 - Code Talker Start: gain Control loading: checkpoint: confirm window vanished - gain control end: chopper fade out, first black frame
29 - Metallic Archaea start: gain Control end: fade out, first black frame
30 - Skull Face start: first chopper frame end: cutscene: first black frame
31 - Sahelanthropus start: gain control end: last hit
32 - To Know too Much In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
33 - [Subsistence] C2W In-game timer Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
34 - [Extreme] Backup, Back Down In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
35 - Cursed Legacy In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
36 - [Total Stealth] Footprints of Phantoms In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
37 - [Extreme] Traitors' Caravan In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
38 - Extraordinary In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
39 - [Total Stealth] Over the Fence In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
40 - [Extreme] Cloaked in Silence In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: first frame DD-logo end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed
41 - Proxy War Without End In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: first frame DD-logo end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
42 - [Extreme] Metallic Archaea start: gain Control end: fade out, first black frame
43 - [Flashback] Shining Lights, Even in Death start: first no black chopper frame loading: Cutscene: start - gain control loading: Cutscene: Lock symbol vanished - control back End: Cutscene: Lock symbol vanished
44 - [Total Stealth] Pitch Dark Start: first no black chopper frame loading: Box travel first dark frame-last dark frame loading: Öltank first black frame-control back loading: Pumps button vanish-control back End: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
45 - A Quiet Exit start: first frame DD-logo loading: Cutscene camera angel -control back End: Cutscene: camera angel
46 - The Man Who Sold The World ¤The platform differences are really big in this one (Ishmael does certain actions simply faster on PC ...) start: fist frame with "move Camera" Loading: frame after "move camera" vanished - frame gain control (crawling) End: black frame after cutscene skip of Tank getting blown up
47 - [Total Stealth] The War Economy In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
48 - [Extreme] Code Talker Start: gain Control loading: checkpoint: confirm window vanished - gain control end: chopper fade out, first black frame
49 - [Subsistence] Occupation Forces In-game timer Or: Or (slowdown or cigar is used): Start: gain Control end: Camera angel change or chopper door closed or Container extraction symbol vanished
50 - [Extreme] Sahelanthropus start: gain control end: last hit
Wow, I see you've put a lot of time into this. It's nice to have some standard rules.
Looked through these a bit and I see no immediate issues. If anyone else does, please let me know. Until then I think we should use these timings, and if an issue comes up we can address it then.
As a side note, I know there's a bunch of runs awaiting verification but I am very busy with school atm. From saturday onward I'll have some more time so I'll look through all of them then. Apologies for the wait.
I had a lot of time today :) If we use those timing rules I will edit my runs to include milliseconds as well as the one that can use the in-game time so don't worry about the verification ;)
