Level looping (and dashing during level loop) explained?
3 years ago
Italy

Hello, everybody. I may be asking a dumb question, but I've been looking on YouTube, Google and the speedrunning wiki for a complete guide on how to perform the level looping and I could not find a complete and detailed process. I know how to get through the death triggers (the first part of the glitch, which involves the inventory glitch), but then I am supposed to navigate through the levels in order to reach the level exit trigger or a specific point in the map. I saw NoobKiller Roof performing the dash during the level looping, in example, and I don't know how to do that, nor it is explained anywhere I looked.

So I'm asking if someone who's more expert than me could post, here, a guide for how to perform the dash during the level loop and eventually other important tech info I'm missing. Thank you in advance and have a nice day :)

Vietnam

From what I remember you can dash easily. Try doing it in haunted ruins right in front of the bridge. I think analog is the main key here. It's either that or mess around with the jump button. It's hard to give you a proper answer without being in game.

Nazzareno likes this
Italy

Hello, thank you for answering! Yeah, I thought about the analog and I was already practicing in the Haunted Ruins, since that is the one level, so far, in which I can't reach the place where I need to land at walk speed. My best guess, looking at NoobKiller Roof's video, is that he enters the level loop while running, which is when you are allowed to dash. I can even dash in mid air if I run and fall off the ledge, before i hit the death trigger. But then I don't really know if it is a matter of timing (and I have to exit the menu quickly in order to "still" be able to dash) or something else. NoobKiller Roof luckily shows the inputs on screen, and I see he switches from analog stick to directional button while using the inventory glitch, and then exits the inventory spamming triangle. I tried to replicate it, but I didn't manage to dash. I'll keep trying and eventually get in touch with him.

Vermont, USA

Nazzareno, if it helps, some months ago I clipped NoobKillerRoof's loops (most of them, anyway) for reference as I was learning the run. Are you referring to this Haunted Ruins loop?

https://www.twitch.tv/noobkillerroof/clip/FriendlyFrozenSaladKAPOW?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Or this one? https://www.twitch.tv/noobkillerroof/clip/TiredAmorphousReindeerSMOrc?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

To begin, you are right that it is a matter of timing. This takes time to adjust to. For the first Haunted Ruins clip, after falling off the ledge (where you would normally wait for the bridge to lower), if you watch NoobKiller's inputs and match them with Dan's animation, you can count off that NoobKiller dashes 8 times. When I learned this loop I took this as the first part of the loop.

The second part is when NoobKiller stops dashing and holds Up on the D-pad. This he does for approximately 6 seconds (you can use the timer to help you), which is when the screen changes to reveal the sky. When the sky disappears and the screen is about to become black again you will notice he switches the input to Up + Left on the D-pad.

This brings us to the third and final part of the loop which is "the landing." Unfortunately, Noobkiller's video does not have in-game audio, so you cannot rely on audio queues to help you, however in a real setting you would hear the sound of Dan landing--this is the sign that the loop is over. Without knowing for sure when this sound happens in his video, I would approximate it at around 28:43, about 8 seconds after holding Up + Left on the D-pad. He lands by switching to the analog stick and holding down (I believe he does this for efficiency, since after you land you need to move Dan regularly with the analog stick and this makes it an easy transition). What I cannot explain is how the door he then goes through is open (perhaps he lands in a zone that triggers it to open?) since every time I have done the loop the door is always closed.

As for the 2nd loop which I linked to above, my advice is to pay attention to the initial camera angle as well as the visual clues you are given. It's difficult to navigate this one (it is for me, anyway), but if you watch closely you can see that Dan's path pretty much entirely follows a crack or line of the stage. You can see Noobkiller's analog stick wiggling back in forth as he does this. He does this until moving a little beyond the top of a tower--approximately 2 seconds--at which point he begins moving Up + Right with the analog stick.

The "landing" for this loop is pretty flexible, and you can see him moving around in a circular fashion. I have landed here in many ways, so I would say there's a reasonable amount of leeway with this one.

One last note: the first loop uses Circle until the dash begins (look at the inputs) whereas the second loop uses it throughout the landing. Someone else can correct me or add on, but as far as I am aware the original understanding of level looping was that Circle had to be held. As you can see, over time we've learned that's not true. Some loops have Circle, some do not.

Nazzareno likes this
Italy

Thank you, Jacobo! Yes, I was referring to the first glitch, but help on the second one too is well appreciated (if I only could get to that second glitch XD). It's a lot of precious info, which I'm going to apply as soon as possible. What about the actual dash, though? I understand the timing after that, when you need to dash a certain amount of times, then swithc direction et cetera, but I just can't start dashing. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with the inventory glitch and the Circle button.

Vermont, USA

Is this video helpful? Haha, be honest.

The "visual queue" is something I find helpful. For reference, it's about at 1:37 in the video when I exit the inventory, which I do by pressing Select rather than Triangle. That just so happens to be in my muscle memory, but please note that Triangle works just as well.

Nazzareno likes this
Italy

This is pure gold, sir. I'll try it as soon as possible and let you know if it works and if I can figure out how to get the door open. Thank you so much for you help and time :)

Vermont, USA

Cool! No worries. If you haven't already, I know Crash has some videos (Ghost Ship and Time Device come to mind) that have detailed explanations which I found helpful as well, and I'd recommend those. Alowishus has tutorials up there, too. They are on Youtube.

I do agree that there are some unexplained components to level looping in this game, and our community would benefit from videos showing inputs/controllers. I'd be happy to make more little demos if there are loops that are tricky for you (or anyone else). The only one I cannot touch is the huge loop NoobKillerRoof does in Pools of the Ancient Dead, where he skips gathering the soul helmets and loops to the end trigger. I've done that exactly 2 times out of over 100 attempts, easy, and I do not understand what I am doing wrong. If anyone out there has advice for that one, I'm all ears.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Nazzareno likes this
Italy

I don't know about the level loop in Pools of the Ancient Dead. Since it required the dash, I just went for the faster glitch at the Death's boat.

Vietnam

Are you on pal?

Italy

Yes, Crash.

Vietnam

This could actually be your problem, im not 100% certain, but I have always been able to dash while level looping on ntsc without any complication. It may have something to do with the speed conversion from ntsc to pal. Pal runs slower.

Italy

That would be a real shame. I tried for an hour straight, yesterday, and I couldn't manage to get a single dash, but I thought it was a problem of me not using the analog stick correctly. If it's a Pal problem I'll have to think of something else entirely.

Italy

Okay, little update: I switched from ePsxe to PCSXR for the emulation in order to make the game run at 60 FPS and test the glitches again (I don't even know if this kind of things is allowed for speedruns). Now, though, I have the goold old freeze on the Hilltop Mausoleum Level, which I didn't have on ePsxe 2.0.0. Does anyone know if there is a version of PCSXR which can do the same?

EDIT: I found a decent plugin for ePsxe 2.0.0, so now my game runs at 60 FPS. I'm still not getting the glitch, but I'd say because I cannot make Dan run with the analog stick. It is either a sensibility issue or just my lack of skills.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Vietnam

Are you using actual analog or did you map your dpad onto analog?

Vietnam

I would also try ntsc to confirm its just pal with the level looping.

Italy

I'm using an original PS1 Dualshock pad. I also tried to set it as a standard analog-less pad in the emulator, but the analogs are still detected and I cannot disable them via the button. I don't know how to map the analogs onto the Dpad. It's not an option in the emulator settings.

Edit: the problem is that I can't consistently run with the analog, believe it or not. In his clip, Jacobo shows he just completely presses the stick up and it works, even with Dan facing the opposite direction. If I just press the stick, Dan walks, and i need to quickly press twice to make him actually run. Sometimes I need a complete double press, sometimes I press "in the middle".

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Vietnam

Analog should make you instantly run, try ajusting the dead zone on the analog through its software.

Italy

I've had that problem too. The game doesn't seem to work very well with emulator, you actually have to double push the analog to run as if it were just the d-pad

Italy

Exactly, WRP_Beater. I didn't even know the analog was supposed to work as run only (that explains a lot). I'll try to mess with the input, anyway, and let you know.