Removal of PLANET's runs and changes to rules/leaderboard
6 years ago
United States
Moderatortomatoanus
He/Him, They/Them
6 years ago

There are several things to address in this post. The first of which is the removal of all of PLANET’s runs from the leaderboard. This was done for two major reasons, the first being inappropriate behavior towards other members of the community, and the second being that his runs are suspected of being cheated. I will only go into detail on the latter issue for sake of privacy.

All of this information was recently brought to light, otherwise it would have been acted on earlier. In August of 2017, PLANET sent several files to another runner, with one of the attached files being a program that allowed for the modification of files to reduce the chance of random encounters in the wasteland segments of the run. This email has been verified by mod via screenshot. None of PLANET’s submitted runs contain wasteland encounters. This is not abnormal, as there are many runners whose runs don’t have encounters. Unlike the other runners, PLANET never streamed live attempts of his runs to demonstrate that he could get encounters. The only times that he did runs live on stream were at two live marathons. In both live runs, he did not get encounters.

In addition to the removal of wasteland encounters, it is believed that PLANET removed one of the rats in the cave segment at the beginning of the run. During a private conversation (as confirmed by screenshots), PLANET admitted to having used a map editor to remove the second rat from the cave (the rat that is hidden behind the wall at the 90° turn in the cave). We are unsure of if PLANET used the modified map in his runs, but the rat is only visible in one of his runs that we have seen. All of his other runs have him running very close to where the rat should spawn but the rat is not visible. Please note that it is possible that the rat walked northwest of its spawn spot to not aggro from him and was out of range of his character so it was not visible, but the odds of this happening are incredibly low, along with all of the other RNG that went in his favor in the runs.

There is also a belief that PLANET may have also modified his files to reduce the amount of damage he took from the laser doors in the military base, but we are not certain that he did. Additionally, PLANET’s two most recent any% PBs did not have any audio, meaning that they could have easily been spliced (though we don’t believe they were). Regardless, the community has come to the decision to remove all of PLANET’s runs from the leaderboard.

So where do we go from here?

There are three rules that are going to be added to the leaderboard that will pertain to all runs submitted from now on. The first rule is that in all runs, the in-game audio must be audible. This is being implemented as a precautionary measure to combat against the prospect of splicing. This rule applies to all runs of all categories.

The second rule being implemented from now on only pertains to any% runs that are better than 6 minutes, or runs that are records for other categories. After the run is finished, in the same video, the runner must start a new game using the same character file that was used in the run. The player must then demonstrate that all rats are present in the cave and that it is possible for them to get random wasteland encounters on that save file.

In addition to these rule changes, the any% segmented category will now be removed from the leaderboard due to the category being very inactive (no runs for over 2 years), the regular any% record is faster than the segmented record (displays lack of interest in the category), and that segmented as a whole is a dated concept in speedrunning (not done very often anymore).

Edited by the author 5 years ago
WolfMerrik, LasTYNS and 2 others like this
Czech Republic

Damn, seems like PLANET is too much of a perfectionist (he told me he did thousands of attempts) and it seems like he reached his patience tolerance, so in order to get the perfect run, he decided to cheat and thought poeple wouldn't notice. Too bad he didn't do a segmented run instead. That's what the category is for, anyway... oh wait, no more :)

WolfMerrik likes this
United States

I'm still not convinced on the situation of this run being removed. Mods over on reddit locked the thread so responding here for a bit more permanency. The biggest problem I still have with all of this is that the entire main body of the argument that Planet cheated his runs are, things that can happen but are just unlikely. Let's break this down paragraph by paragraph and see how much of the argument is comprised of "not impossible but not likely".

-First paragraph talks about inappropriate behavior first as if it's the utmost reason his run got removed, followed by his runs being suspected of being cheated. -Second paragraph states Planet sent a file to another user that was a mod that reduces the chance to get wasteland encounters. Following this it states that while none of Planet's run had wasteland encounters, it was not abnormal to see runs like this, presumably because the game is 4 minutes long and grinding out RNG is practically required for a good run. -Third paragraph comes with Planet admitting that he had at one point installed a mod to remove a rat from the cave, but is quickly followed with a statement that says while unlikely, there are circumstances where this too can occur naturally without mods. Ended with a note about RNG despite it being a 4 minute run and nearly entirely based on it. -Fourth paragraph claims he is suspected of having a mod for lowering damage done by laser doors in the military base, but that you cannot be certain that he did. Also mentions that there is no audio meaning it could've easily been spliced, but the mods believe that it is not spliced.

Every single paragraph is "suspected of this, but reasons why it all can legitimately happen". This is where you are normally supposed to hold suspicions until you can produce evidence of the cheating but this is still yet to be seen. It doesn't look good or convincing when your post is full of "We are unsure of if Planet used this" and "we are not certain that he did" and then there is 0 evidence behind any of it to be seen either. You keep saying you cannot produce evidence because it apparently all lies in private chat logs and that it would be a breach of privacy to share it, this further just makes it sound like the evidence against him cheating isn't very strong to back up these claims. The only true basis of the argument is that all this RNG is unlikely, but if you're running thousands of attempts at this 4 minute long game, you will eventually find those runs with all the right RNG to make it a world record run.

To conclude, if there is factual evidence of cheating that warrants a removal of his times, please post it. I would love to see the situation solved by either not being convinced with the evidence produced and to continue defending his run, or by being convinced he is actually a cheater and stop defending him. I could care less about some random cheater, but all of this, to me, points to a run falsely accused of cheating just on grounds of suspicion.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
Czech Republic

How exactly do you want to provide evidence for such thing as RNG manipulation if he never streamed his attempts? Sure his run might have been the perfect RNG run, but since there is a lot of suspicion, it might not be legit.

Modding a game and not showing other outcomes of RNG makes such runs virtually impossible to verify against cheating.

United States

It's just that, lots of suspicion doesn't make a run illegitimate, the evidence that proves the run is illegitimate is what makes it illegitimate. There is nothing close that points to evidence of this, and the only thing being offered at all as evidence is that there is an email where he admitted to have at one point installed a mod and another where he just sent the file itself, neither of which is evidence that they are used in his submitted runs.

WolfMerrik likes this
Czech Republic

"During a private conversation (as confirmed by screenshots), PLANET admitted to having used a map editor to remove the second rat from the cave (the rat that is hidden behind the wall at the 90° turn in the cave)"

Seems like evidence to me, although it would be nice to see those screenshots.

United States

Immediately following that line in the same paragraph: "We are unsure of if PLANET used the modified map in his runs, but the rat is only visible in one of his runs that we have seen. All of his other runs have him running very close to where the rat should spawn but the rat is not visible. Please note that it is possible that the rat walked northwest of its spawn spot to not aggro from him and was out of range of his character so it was not visible". That is not conclusive evidence that it is used in his runs, and one can easily imagine reasons why someone could possibly have had the mod installed at one point in time, i.e. practicing, especially if it's as detrimental to a run as it's made out to be.

WolfMerrik likes this
Norway

As Tomatoanus has stated several times, he has screenshots of conversations where Planet admits to whats mentioned above. For his privacys sake they wont be shared. You, nor anyone else can make an accurate opinion without actually viewing the proof. I assure you that the moderators and actual runners that have gone thoroughly through the proof has not just made a decision to get "ez WR". This isnt something that's been decided over the night, this took many days to decide, I know this for a fact. Just know that because you've read the vague description of something in a game we can only assume you know nothing about, doesnt mean that you can make an educated opinion and expect the people involved who knows their stuff to respect it. I dont want to discuss the topic with you or anyone, I just want you and the other triggered redditors to stop whining. Its no surprise that the people running Fallout games arent as pissed off, because we know a little more about the situation than you guys.

LasTYNS and NoobSalmon like this
United States

What's mentioned above is that he's sent a file that removed wasteland encounters to one user and then admitted to having installed a mod at one point in time that removes a rat from the beginning of the game. Would you like to point me to the bit of evidence where Planet admits he submitted cheated runs? Because that hasn't been stated by anyone yet, which means those screenshots you are talking about mean nothing to the validity of his run.. It doesn't take a genius or an expert to look at a case and see that it's full of accusations and literally 0 evidence to back it up. Again, the only thing going for this is messages that he at one point modified his game, and doesn't mean his runs are necessarily affected by said modifications. Other than that the entire situation seems like speculation, and appears wrong on how it was reacted to without proper evidence. Like I said I would love to be convinced he's a cheater so I can stop defending him but thus far nothing has been able to convince me other wise.

Norway

"For his privacys sake they wont be shared." what do you not understand? Im not gonna discuss the cheating with you, just trying to explain why your opinions doesnt matter and why nobody cares.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
LasTYNS likes this
Denmark

Twan, we KNOW planet cheated. The chance of getting the luck he did in all his runs is miniscule and he got 1/100 RNG in both his live streamed runs. That's 1/10000,which should be proof enough by itself.

United States

We both speed run games and we both don't speed run fallout 1 so I guess your opinion is just as worthless as mine based on that merit, which isn't a very good argument to begin with. Quoting the thing about privacy doesn't change the fact that what's been stated is they they have screenshots of him having once modified his game, not screenshots admitting he cheated.

United States

If there were examples of hitting this RNG consistently it would be different, getting lucky for one run out of supposedly thousands still isn't conclusive evidence that it had to be cheated.

Denmark

I have actually run fallout 1 a bit though. Not enough to ever get a run as lucky as any of the runs planet submitted though

United States

Comment was directed towards the other guy about that sorry Lastyns, we caught each other with over lapping posts

LasTYNS likes this
Norway

Ive been involved in the Fallout community for a while now. Have ran other Fallout games aswell. Havent seen you around though. I also talk with the other Fallout runners, which I guess makes my opinion more educated than yours. I also know more about this situation than you, but you dont want to understand that.

Edited by the author 5 years ago
United States

What is appeal to authority. Not being an expert or an authority on something doesn't exclude me from recognizing and talking about it. What more is there to understand? There are screenshots of Planet admitting to have once modified his game and there is a very lucky run being looked at with suspicion that has no evidence behind it being cheated. The only thing I want to see is the definitive proof that he is cheating, nothing else.

Denmark

If you cheat properly you'll never be definitively caught.

I don't think speedrun court should be more lenient than a real court, and planet would definitely have been convicted in one of those.

Denmark

It's a total shame that all this outrage is happening, because we have actually gone through this really thourougly as a community. This was not a split-second decision.

Game stats
Followers
316
Runs
282
Players
133
Latest threads
Posted 5 years ago
1 reply
Posted 8 years ago
27 replies
Posted 8 years ago
0 replies
Posted 8 years ago
0 replies