Categories, discord, and other stuff
3 years ago
Nova Scotia, Canada

Hello There! (Insert Obi Wan here)

Just had a few questions. Firstly, should we expect to see categories per difficulty/ per character as in other SOR games?

As well, I think it would be great for the community to use discord to communicate! I personally find it not only helpful but downright key in growing and bonding a community!

Looking forward to seeing what times people have put up! Anyone want to share their current PBs? I’ve been running Arcade Easy w/ Zan, and my PB so far is 47:52!

Looking forward to seeing this run continue to evolve!

The Polo King

Nova Scotia, Canada

Thanks for the response! You’ll definitely see me on the board in two days, recorded my PB and ready to submit haha

Sm_Izumi likes this
Nevada, USA

Hey guys, I run the Brawlers Avenue discord that the page links to. If you guys have any suggestions for channels or need anything let me know!

Ontario, Canada

Not gonna lie, the boards look bloody confusing and aweful. Can we not just simplify things and sort by character? Segregating the boards like this is rather silly and once you go past one sub category things are just not pretty or easy to manage,move or update.

My suggestions are: Each Mode should be a Category followed by Difficulty as those are the biggest factors in the runs. Coop versions should be their own Main categories like above. Characters should be used as sort filter when submitting so if people want to see the fastest its shown like a true Any% run would be. If they wanna see the Fastest SoR4 specific character or Retro they can compare them by using the filters.

I see no reason to have the boards look like this at all or to hide the main play modes of the game in MISC.

I would also suggest testing the IGT timing of the game because allot of them are broken and not found to be working correctly till much later just because people found it to be the easiest thing to go with.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
England

I think they know the devs mash. Pretty sure igt is timed by frames so any slower platform wouldn't be at a disadvantage. I think the boards look fine now, once it's filled out more it's gonna be beautiful :)

Texas, USA

Is there any reason there's not a Story category? Considering the difference in how lives work between it and Arcade it feels like there would be some different strategies possible.

Texas, USA

There's no difference in strategy between arcade and story. Taking intentional deaths takes longer than doing loops and infinite. Also, story mode defeats the purpose of In Game Time since time resets if you game over.

Texas, USA

any game over should automatically invalidate a run. There's no situation in which it would be 'fast' to game over.

Ontario, Canada

The IGT between levels as normal does not reset at all if you lose a life. If you gameover the runs dead anyways so I personally don't understand why this matters. There is a good number of things that are different between story vs arcade in terms of how lives work and arcade is for 1cc clears generally like the old games.

Story Mode should be there but thats the communities call. But as it stands right now they need to cut down on the category divisions. There is just too many where as they could be condensed.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Ontario, Canada

Here is a Mock up of the ideal way to lower category divisions and see overall fastest and still be able to set the filters to see fastest per character as if it was its own sub category.

https://i.imgur.com/qNXiJJn.png

Feel free to ignore story mode in the example but this cleans up the category divisions and presents the board much nicer for viewing and trims down the back end a bit. Since Boss rush is its own thing it should not be counted as a difficulty and instead because of how srdc works you'd just duplicate the category sets for the ones that apply to.

ILs would also be fairly straight forward following this way to utilize the boards ability to sort via filters for characters and still see the overall top times between all characters or filter for specific. IL's would only need to have Difficulty applied to them.

Ultimately the goal is to simplify the board for viewing and submitting without hurting anything or then fixing the mess of division nesting going on.

2P runs would also sort filters by characters as well which you already do so again its only adapting to cleaning up the overall look.

I really want to hear from others, I'm not trying to just beating at this topic for fun. I really do want to feel included in this game as a community member but since I currently run story mode that seems unlikely for now, but honestly I doubt I'll bother submitting my stuff hear based on the lack of constructive communication.

Michigan, USA

The reason why story mode has not been listed is because the potential for someone to splice is too high. In story mode your lives are reset every new level so someone could potentially go through and get the best IL levels in story mode and splice together all their best IL’s into one run. Arcade is literally story mode just no reset of values every new level. If you’ve been running story mode it should be pretty easy to transition over to Arcade. As far as your input on the board layout, we had something similar the first day and many people complained. What you have now is a board based off of the comments and concerns of the community within the first day of the board being open. We are almost always here for constructive criticism, but, as you know, we are all human beings and we all have lives outside of this, and we are doing this all in our free time; if we don’t respond immediately it’s not because we don’t like criticism, it’s because most of us are out working, paying our bills, living with our families and dealing with everything else going on in the world right now. Thanks for your time. Try arcade. You’ll have fun if you’ve been doing story mode, trust me.

Michigan, USA

Not to sound harsh, but I think it's on the proponents of Story Mode speedruns to make the case as to why Story mode needs to be a category, because you're playing the same stages and if it was in the interest of being able to switch characters, that doesn't sound faster than just blowing thru everything as Adam.

And I mean this sincerely. The people who harp on including story mode don't plead their case at all, it's just "I want it in" If you want to change minds and perspectives, you have to make an argument as to why it will, in theory, be distinct from Arcade.

As it stands, it'll end up being identical to Adam Arcade.

And I like the current way the leaderboard is set up, the categories should be separate and there's no reason to integrate them that isn't "It looks cleaner". Function over design, I say.

Ontario, Canada

Bringing up we have lives is kinda a moot point we all do and that's understandable but there is how many ppl looking after the boards and playing the game? Surely I'm not the only one reading the forums and posting.

Anyways the premises of too easy to splice a run is kinda a silly thing to make a case for. You can always splice a run if you wanted to in the first place. Not sure anyone is going to assume the community is jist gonna splice a run because if that's the worry and mods/verifiers of the boards don't wanna take the time to go over runs then maybe they should not be doing it in the first place. Not including a component of the game because ppl are fearing spliced rus is kinda silly, but not gonna change motivation to run it alone.

Displaying the boards with unnessecary divisions just because people don't wanna see that Adam is the true fastest is fighting both functional and simplicity. When things are clear and simple it makes for a more cohesive and straightforward board when it comes to organization, promoting competition and interest.

Feel free to take this as me talking out my ass but iv been around enough communities even dealt with far worse issues to know what I'm talking about.

End if the day regardless I hope people continue to enjoy running the game however they want. But I'm not gonna be told that I'm gonna splice my run because Im running a game mode that plays differently then others.

Also Adam is far from the fastest character to play overall, they are good but it very much comes down to players skill and understanding how to read,judge and react to the game.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Michigan, USA

By all accounts, Adam is the fastest character in a speedrun wrt the main SoR4 cast. Could that change with balance patches or discoveries within the game? Of course, but as it stands now, it's Adam, and an integrated leaderboard displays at a glance that if you want the fastest time, just play Adam. Tech lords and people that sniff out strats are outliers, most people will play under conventional wisdom. It's not a case of "we don't want to see that Adam is the fastest", that's an extremely silly assumption to make. But the existence of segregated leaderboards lets newcomers know that there are many ways to play because the criteria is different for each category. If anything it helps find new tech with less played characters.

If you want to impose yourself like this, touting your experience within various speedrunning communities, then idk what you hope to accomplish, because the leaderboard is organized this way because of community feedback, so either your sole opinion is more valuable than a week straight of community feedback or...what?

And you still haven't made a case FOR Story mode's inclusion.

ckellyspeedruns likes this
Nova Scotia, Canada

I’m not really sure the appeal of wanting story mode to be included beyond that it is easier to complete due to more lives. I would focus on practicing the true game, which is arcade, and hone your skills in that setting! Managing health , specials, food, life’s, etc, are all part of the streets of rage experience and in my opinion a key part of the game!

The reason the leaderboards are split by character, from what I understand, is because each character plays so vastly different that it is much like a different run. This way, everyone gets a specific character leaderboard instead of having to play one or two characters because they are faster. It lets all characters be runnable, and it means characters only have to compete with each other in terms of being the best run for their leaderboard!

Faust4712 likes this
Ontario, Canada

Also gonna point out that Boss Rush is not a difficulty selection is a game mode so thats done incorrectly.

Sure Adam is the fastest SOR4 Character but, While the character cast is vastly different we have this magical thing called filters that allows us to sort the board to see the fastest SOR4 BLAZE runs or to any specific character we would like. On the main view you will see a list of all the currently run fastest characters perhaps the same character multiple times showing where the competition is really at currently.

This does not influence ones choices to do runs with other characters but does provide easy access to information in an organized view in the simplicity way possible.

As I've said I do not care that much about story being included at all because maybe ill stop doing it and do the other modes maybe I won't. But thats just how I see things take however you'd like because I don't expect people to agree with it but at least acknowledge what I'm saying outside that.

Edited by the author 3 years ago
Texas, USA

Good day chaps! I'll chime in really quickly on this! For the fastest characters of the main cast its 100% Adam no ands ifs or buts. He is simply that dude, however even if/when the game develops further he will kill things even faster and he'll remain that dude. Now of the rest of the roster it'd have to be Shiva as he can practically 1 shot most enemies handily and crush boss fights regardless of a TOD or not. These 2 are the overall fastest to run the game with pretty much with no debate.

As for story mode, it honestly doesn't matter if its in or not imo. Is it necessary? Not really when the goal is to finish it with said character. Does it have its own strats? Definitely. It allows you to switch characters and restart levels and what not. Does that waste time in a run? Definitely. Is there a benefit? Well you get to continue a stage and start that stage over which is great for learning. The notion of splicing comes from getting your score and lives reset each stage. This is the problem people have with story vs splicing an arcade run that docks your score, lives and time spent each stage. You'd have to go through some SERIOUS hoops to splice a run when everything I just mentioned is CLEARLY documented as you're going through the game. This is why people prefer arcade to story.

Learning this game with said character is what makes each run exciting to do and spectate. In story you might play Axel and say fuck it this lvl is too hard I'm gonna boot loop XYZ boss with Adam. That wastes time and then you're gonna swap back to Axel after which again wastes time. Why not just get good with Axel and learn his strats? In fact, this is how the run would most likely go, after Estel you unlock Adam and bam! Now you got a REAL run going. I can't see it going any differently tbh because anything else will be left with the player using another character anyway. So why not just go arcade is the question? I again personally don't care if its in or not but for the sake of making the argument on the inclusion of story and splicing more clear. It's up to the mods at the end of the day.

Good day chaps!

Edited by the author 3 years ago
MASH likes this
Texas, USA

Adam, as well as every retro character, is available from the beginning of the run in Story Mode once they've been unlocked. I'm not going to sit and argue back and forth about why Story Mode should exist in the leaderboards. It should, and it should be self-evident that it's built into the game as a division in the game and that Story Mode gives players the ability to take a strategic death to save time. What really is evident to me though is that Story Mode isn't going to become a category because the community is afraid of cheaters. Fair enough, it still SHOULD be a category because there are legitimate strategies that differ between Arcade and it. As it stands the only way that's going to happen though is if someone who's respected and highly skilled fights for it, probably by setting a time that undercuts the highest arcade times with it. There's no incentive for any of them to try, though, unless they can drop the time by something ridiculous like twenty minutes, which is probably not possible.

One thing I will note as an aside is that no, there definitely should not be a combined list for all characters. Each character plays so differently that if the leaderboard is not segregated by character, or even if there's a half-measure to put them together, there will be no incentive to play as certain characters and learn their strats because it will be nothing but Adam and Shiva runs, or more likely, just one of them. Comparing high level Floyd playthroughs to Shiva playthroughs are completely different things, and it's essentially unfair to compare them.

ckellyspeedruns likes this
Texas, USA

Eh...regarding story mode again...

There are no "intentional deaths" necessary as you can just pause the game and choose the assists and select another character and run the game again no problem. Its not about who's respected or not but the only REAL strats is restarting every level with max stars to clear areas. Because LITERALLY it would be so much more easier to have stars to deal with bosses or wave clearing faster. The only TRUE down side is reloading the levels which wastes time. In a sense, you can always decide which levels to restart and which not to right? But with a character like Cherry, you'd want to restart because her loops are hard to do on bosses and she has some trouble with wave clearing in most stages. Which in some cases makes it a joke to run perhaps? I'll do some testing on it just for the sake of making an argument on it but most agree its kind of a bs category.

Cheers