Pretty much what Punchy said. Version differences is something that exists in a lot of games. What sense would it make to manipulate the faster versions to adhere and fall in line to the slower versions? That isn't fair, either. Would NTSC times, in the case of other games, be inflated because of PAL 50hz? No, they wouldn't.
Like I said earlier, affordability is never a good reason to separate leaderboards. If that were the case, every console board on speedrun.com would have succumb to PAL 50hz / PC Specifications / SSD a long time ago (some dumb companies are even still giving Europe PAL 50hz to this day), and it would be a godawful mess.
fine w/e didn't enjoy the run anyway have fun then
also i didn't say separate categories i said just add 15 seconds so it evens the playing field
I'll cop to adding time onto JP runs as soon as every other speedrun starts adding time to NTSC runs to compensate for PAL being slower on like 90% of all games ever to even the playing field for everyone who isn't american.
That's not happening because that's clearly ridiculous, right? So is this.
and frankly mate your time is like 90th on console you are nowhere near the stage where you should even be worrying about 15 seconds from JP. Just run the game, maybe think about buying JP later if you get into it more. Sheesh.
(p.s sorry to everyone else if it seems like i'm on the goddamn warpath about this american stuff but man this bugs me it's only EVER a problem if the fastest version isn't NTSC)
Having read through the replies, it makes sense that if one wants to go fast, one would need to buy the fastest version... Kind of like racing cars. You don't penalize another car for being faster; you upgrade yours so you can keep up.
How we go about buying the Japanese version. I've searched everywhere and was not able to find a reliable place to purchase Japanese PSN cards. You can't use a American debit card because of the address difference
HI! Sorry for the poor English. I am playing in Japanese regulated version. I am the top runner in Madhouse NG +, but I am playing in the Japanese regulated version. I think that the optimal solution to this problem is to add time. Because we do not need the effort to do so only if we add time, because we expect that the time of regulation version is the wall we should overcome by runners. Although it is the opinion of those who are playing the regulated version, I thought that it would be helpful.
Welp, youve heard it from the horses mouth. If one of the censored version runners doesn't mind, I mean he gets the idea that his version is faster by an awkward advantage. But then again it is easy to obtain the console copy.
I dunno, I've been on both sides of this fence using the evidence before, currently im sitting on it; theres points for both for and against but, I think im honestly for adding time to PC runs, i think adding time is the "easiest" option; however that censored copy IS available to console players; but if we add time to PC and not to console and just say "fuck the console runners they can buy the other copy" instead of just adding time too, we'll get some serious backlash, and I for one also think it'd be unfair.
I can say that I know for certain that 3 non Japanese console runners in the top 15 already purchased and have the jpn import on its way, myself included. I have heard about 2 others also waiting on their import but I haven't asked them about it so I can't guarantee it's true but it seems likely.
I've been back and forth on the time add and I'm still not 100% on it because of how it affects other runners. I can't speak for any of the other runners, but I won't complain no matter how it turns out.
"If one of the censored version runners doesn't mind, I mean he gets the idea that his version is faster by an awkward advantage."
I'm not really saying they're wrong, but we were not all waiting for a censored version runner to go "actually it's fine" before we did anything lol. It's not like living in Japan automatically supersedes everyone else.
The thing I get repeatedly hung up on with the censored version is that if you're going to add time, you need an experienced runner of both versions to get a hold of them and accurately time out the differences between them because there are many minor things about the censored version that could very well affect the speed of the run beyond the obvious snake key thing. In order for that to happen, someone has to get a hold of a copy. If that can be done, we don't really need to split them or add a penalty in the first place because we can get the thing?
The issue I face is not with console, console can obtain the copy, it's with PC. PC players literally cannot get the japanese version. I can't make a final true stand on all of this because theres a lot of options all with pros and cons and everybodys going to have different opinions. But it IS a little unfair for US/EU PC runners who are in competition again JAP runners, because they can't just get the other copy to compete; theres literally nothing they can do but wait for us to decide to separate or add time to JAP PC runs.
For this to be a thing, you really would need a TAS quality test of how much time JPN saves.
We also don't know if the IGT rounds up. Some games in the series we know it does. If the JPN version saves 15.76 seconds, we can't just add on a flat 15 seconds because in terms of IGT (assuming it rounds up at the end), that would basically be 16 seconds.
There's also various things I believe Trance and Xerian have said (?) relating to a really high framerate saving time on many things, so then it makes the entire ordeal more complicated because faster framerates make JPN save more time and so on... see where this is going?
If JPN players can really save this much more time, maybe category separation is going to have to be a thing. If it was as simple as adding time fair enough, but evidently it isn't. Separation or leaving it alone seems the only options, unfortunately.
whichever way you look at it regardless of the category or game if JPN version is the fastest and they have 1st place they hold the true WR. Separating regions doesn't give US/EU players a chance to get a WR because how can you hold a WR for a Specific Region? if your region is slower and it's separated from a faster region you have 1st place, nothing more nothing less.
Unless the New Meme is Region Record EleGiggle
seperating jp due to differences isnt an uncommon thing in speedrunning tho. Same as playing the fastest version. You wanna play the fastest version play on the jp category if u want but just keeping the together still gives other's an unfair advantage even if its obtainable, not everyone has the money to play the fastest version. I've been saying this for a while. For people wanting to be competitive in this game they would eventually have to buy the jp version just due the fact it's faster. Just because people hastily bought the jp version shouldn't mean u should hesitate to change it is all im saying. Adding time or just making it a separate is the best solution. Plus someone that runs the jp version even agreed adding time is the best solution, like what more do you want.
"Plus someone that runs the jp version even agreed adding time is the best solution, like what more do you want."
Does not automatically make opinion more valid. Goes against established series precedent, goes against majority speedrunning precedent. Money remains a non-argument. Needing a faster region version is not new, and it's not an "unfair advantage", it's the faster version because that's what the goal of speedrunning is, to go fast, not to be fair across all regions and platforms, the concept of time does not understand fair. Yadda yadda yadda, why do I keep repeating myself.
Please stop regurgitating the same opinion, especially if you already deleted your frickin run from the board and made a show of leaving.
This all seems pretty academic considering there doesn't appear to be any runs with the Japanese version in the top 100 PC easy NG+ times. I would assume that the vast majority of the Japanese community is on console, which anyone can freely purchase regardless of region. Complaining about cost is silly, because this is an enthusiast hobby that has a high barrier to entry to begin with (gaming PC/PS4, a copy of the game).
Like almost all hobbies, to be the best, you have to be willing to devote a lot of resources, ie time and money. If you cannot afford it, that's a bummer, but such is life dude.
actually madhouse NG+ PC has WR in jp right now so there are people who run JP on PC, yes it does give an unfair advantage if there version is faster. and it goes again majority speedrunning precedent? Where do u get your logic from? Sure it's not uncommon to keep the languages together but it's also not uncommon for speedrunning communities to separate languages due to differences.
" yes it does give an unfair advantage if there version is faster." ¤woosh¤
i'm wasting my time trying to explain this to you apparently
"and it goes again majority speedrunning precedent? Where do u get your logic from?"
the logic of running more than two games in my life
"it's also not uncommon for speedrunning communities to separate languages due to differences."
I get the feeling you've got this impression from your time with Final Fantasy games. The reason those games seperate by language is historical, because the english and japanese communities for those games developed differently and had slightly different irreconcilable rulesets that neither wanted to change.
Read: It only really happens with games that are super old, these days there's no particular reason to split japanese and english communities since everything's far more interconnected now than it used to be. This isn't 100% universal obviously, every game is different, but RE has never split by region before for the minor differences and I see absolutely no reason it should start now.
I tried to explain this to you before, but you kinda just ignored me. I'm getting bored of repeating myself.
