Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain - Forums - Subsisctence % (Potential new category)

I'll be running the mod Infinite Heaven to night (Wich is basicly the same restriction as mission 33 and 49 but for the entire game.) (french time in a couple of minutes actualy.) See if it's intresting to do and play ! I will route that, and will be taking note as well. Feel free to drop by, i'll most likely suffer from it. but you got to start somewhere ! www.twitch.tv/bre3zer Any help is welcome in the process of routing that ;)

I stopped @ mission 20 so far everything worked perfectly. I think that the use of pequod totaly broke the difficulty we might want to ban him from HOTZONE, and maybe even ban the fact of calling him any where as he will most likely carry you in Combat statue. There is still a couple of hard mission to go through but nothing impossible so far. will give you guys more info about that when i happen to finish the run.

this is a great idea... id even go so far to ban the chopper completely unless theres no otherway to finish the mission.

sooo is this gonna be just subsistence (no gear) or total stealth as well?

no gear + perfect stealth would be awesome... doesnt get harder than that...

Honestly while perfect stealth would be possible in Sub% i don't think it's a good idea, it's already so hard by it self haha !

But yeah, the challenge would be at the top i guess. Even if combat status in Sub% are really REALLY challenging (since the enemies got max readiness (Aka NVG, MG, ShotGun, Rocket Launcher, etc etc)

I stopped at MO 18 my testing, and it seems like everything worked out so far ! I got to get back to it for extensive testing, but with the new glitches i don't have much time right now with NG+ Perfect stealth All missions :/

would this be possible in consoles withhout the mod. some AI manipulation pre-missions or free roam?

since the enemies got max readiness (Aka NVG, MG, ShotGun, Rocket Launcher, etc etc

wait what? is this part of the mod?

i was thinking we just run the missions normally but without any gear... i dont think we should require a mod... seems easier to veify too, how could you possible check enemy readiness... but you can always check if some used gear :D

i suggest 2 new categories:

subsistence%. no gear, no chopper pickup, no buddys, no items, final destination, fox only

and

peacenik subsistence%: perfect stealth + no gear + no nothing

Well the mod that i use on pc is really intresting, and add even more to the gameplay / restriction. For instance in MO 5 you cannot fulton the POW you have to get him in to the chopper. In fact fulton is just disable as for now. (wich is an issue for Cursed Legacy for instance (But since the run will most likely finish to mission 30 w/e) The mod even allow you to get out of the AO if somehow you feel the need to get around the AO.

The mod also put on the Dynamic Difficulty and enemies readiness to the max and "lock" it so it doesnt change ever.

It tweak enemies eyes shigt, and a lot of more things that i'm forgetting. That why the mod is great. But i guess we could do the a run that work cross platform without any mods. I need to finish my run so i know how to balance / rule the setup of the run / runs.

But Fox and Perfect Stealth sound great for it. But honestly it's super hard !

If anybody come up with such run, i'll make the category. And will take a look into the balance / Rule asap but i think we got time. :)

i suggest following rules:

No gear (only standard bionic arm allowed), No fulton (unless mission objective requires it like in mission 35), no buddys, no calling chopper (if the game calls it for you its okay, but no redirecting), No kills, Perfect stealth, S-Rank

with those rules anyone can run this categorie regardless of platform

the only tools youll really have are CQC, punch and knocking to lure enemies :D its gonna be haaard

For the Sub% category we could just go for the following ruleset from my perspective (I did some missions on youtube for that matter testing it out):

1 Star AM MRS-4
1 Star WU.S Pistol
1 Star Fulton (since we gotta have it for NG full game walks)
Standard Bionic Arm (evolution grade as you wish)
Camo: Olive Drab or NAKED (for the extra kick, y'know)
NO Support Weapons (you can use the magazine!)
NO Items (not even a box!)
NO Buddy support
NO Chopper Redirection (only use it when specifically needed by the mission)
NO reflex mode
NO chicken Hat
NO kills

Arguable topics:

Total Stealth (pretty hard tbh, as long as you can't call in a decoy chopper, would make for some cool approaches tho fosho)
S-Rank

This way there is no need for a mod that console users can not use and keeps the game vanilla. Off course, if there is something to be destroyed that can be destroyed by the Rifle it makes it a tid bit easier than the real subsistence, but like this we can unite all platforms. We could, however, make a "Infinite-Heaven%" category just for PC players in that regard, makes it even harder.

That would be my suggestion. And I'd be down to run it like that. I want for everybody to be able to participate and using a mod would totally kick all console players in the groin :(

Here's a video of me "sub%-ing" "Where do the bees sleep?" with these rules, but also not even using the magazine. It's not too good time-wise and it does not meet the cat rules I stated above for S-Rank and Peacenik, but nonetheless I did complete the mission (which is in fact one of the hardest in the game)

~PM

I think that WU and AM MRS-4 break the whole point of the run/challenge. Give me that and i'm basicly just going to do the same thing as in my Perfect Stealth run ^^

The whole point of the category / challenge would be to have nothing to work with, even the empty mag.

I need to finish my testing before i can say for sure what can and cannot be done.

I'm certain that fulton is a bad thing. Unless the game force you to use that:

fultonning KO Enemies basicly allow you to "kill them"
Being force to carry a POW to a chopper is way harder than fultoning him and rushing your way out.

Subsisctence is all about procure on site equipement. That's why i suggest having Enemies with max readiness, if they got rocket launcher that mean you got explosive and that can be useful.

I do aggre that we have to ban the chopper in pretty much every case. As you entering combat status Trigger Pequod AI and he is broken.

I'll try to get ahead of MO18 with the mod and see how far i can go with the rules that i have used so far. I'm thinking of finish that to night.. maybe. Well see.

I fully agree on the real meaning of a subsistence run and I would totally implement a category for the mod, BUT we do have to find a way to make it accessible to everyone or split PC / Console alltogether (we had the discussion allready because of the PC customization glitch...)

as much as I want to play subsistence in its true meaning, the same amount of thought has to go towards the leaderboards if we introduce it. If the leaderboard will say "pc game only, use mod XYZ" I think it would work out, but the first ones to object later on will be the console players that are not able to play that particular category. Having said that I know how many of the runners would appreciate the category, yet Konami did not implement it and the "glorious pc master race" is once again the only group of people that will be able to fully customize their gaming experience.

I can agree on not using the fulton at all, that I can live with.

On a serious note: The max readines is bomb, I like the mod though never used it myself so far, but imma get it and start a new save or something. As said, I am down to run this myself but I don't want to limit the category to only us PC players :(

EDIT:

I'd like to aid in testing it, I will start playing the Mod starting tomorrow, backed up my save file and deleted the original so I will try and complete the game with the subsistence Ruleset! Wish me luck, fellow Diamond Dogs and Motherbase brothers and sisters <3

The whole point of the category / challenge would be to have nothing to work with, even the empty mag

this.

having a AR and a tranq gun completely defeats the purpose...

also i really dont think we need a categorie for a specific mod... you can run sub% on console just fine, just dont take any gear with you (hell you could even take it with you as long as you dont use it)

i suggest following categories:

subsistence%

and

subsistence perfect stealth%

also i think no fulton no chopper is a good rule for these categories

i dont think we should force a certain readiness, let everyone figure out what level of readiness is best for sub%

@dekuking: Well, I mean, you can use the standard loadout and stuff, and if you abide by the rules it should be finde... but it's gonna be a huge point of arguments. He had this, and he had that, maybe that gives an advantage yadda yadda. I could live with it tho, yet the mod forces everything and everyone would have the same thing going in and stuff.

no fulton no chopper sounds good to me. Tried the first mission with the below ruleset, I'd say no intentional choppers, if you can exfiltrate the hotzone on foot you should do just that. Some missions need you to put someone on a chopper tho, mostly giving you a landing zone itself, so we have to use those. Here's my current ruleset I devised:

ALL Missions Subsistence Ruleset, meaning:

Empty Loadout (mod based)
OSP Weapon Procurement (mod based)
Olive Drab Duds
Standard Bionic Arm
NO Gear
NO Buddy support
NO Airstrikes
NO reflex mode
NO chicken hat
NO Fulton
NO intentional Helicopter, Hotzone exfil on foot!
NO Helicopter Decoy
NO Helicopter Re-Routing (if missions asks for one, use the game's hotzone!)
EXCEPTIONS ONLY if not possible otherwise!

Also: How do you guys want to handle the boss fights? Beating Sahelanthropus or the Metallic Archaea mission is, well, impossible without as much as a rocket launcher or rifle. Or can you CQC Sahelanthropus to death? Kappa

If we sort the boss thing out, I think the above ruleset is basically... go in without anything, get out whilst beating the mission... Any objections?

@paxton I did beat 29 & 31 without anything yesterday so it's not an issue. However it's going to be a pain in the ass to rely on RNG: 29 will the skulls instantly destroy your AA gun ? 31 will Sahelantropus cast the red mist right away ?

@dekuking I love Perfect Stealth No kill but, I advice trying to do Sub% on mission 22 4 strcuts perfect stealth no kill. While it's not impossible it's really really REALLY fucking hard. And i think that's what will stop people running perfect stealth no kill sub%.

I'm still playing through every mission and trying to get the peacenik on all of them with sub% rules. But honestly i won't be wasting my time on MO22. MO7 is also a pain in the ass to do but far more possible than 22.

could you exploit the checkpoint in this category, for example doing perfect stealth. you encounter some soldiers on the way and its faster to stun them than wait for an opening and move ahead while they wake up and report. the soldiers ahead will go to caution status where its a checkpoint. if I reload checkpoint it resets their status to normal.

So since 29 and 31 are perfectly possible @bre3zeR I'd say we should go ahead and add the cat after you (and I, but I do it slower :D) tested it enough and see if people like to run it, that would be my approach. First we need to see (and proof) that we can beat every single mission with the subsistence ruleset in order to make it happen =)

I just did Subsistence% for M3 Heroes Way. I even got Foxhound rank :P

did M30 Skull Face and again Foxhound rank. wasn't as fast as I hoped for but better still :D

M23 White Mamba fairly easy mission for Subsistence%