Accurate timing needed?
6 years ago
European Union

First of, congratulations to InTheMug and beadle111 for their tied WR runs. But it got me thinking if we need to start timing the runs more accurately.

I wanted to ask the opinion of the community before I make any changes to the leaderboard. But I thought that now the run is getting quite optimised we should time runs to tenths of a second?

This also made me think about having a consistent start and end frame we agree on for accurate timing. I've made a couple of gifs to show what I mean.

Starting frame:- http://imgur.com/a/cTy66 This gif shows that when I press X to start the game, the screen does not change for another 3 frames. As it would be impossible to tell when a runner hits the start button, perhaps we should start the timer on the frame when the two un-chosen characters disappear?

Ending frame:- http://imgur.com/a/M4AKp The ending frame is more clean cut I think. When you land the killing blow death adder begins his death animation. So we should stop timing on the first frame of this animation.

Tools:- https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Yua I have been using Yua to extract runs from my OBS studio recordings. I like it's ability to step through a video frame by frame so I have been using it to look at the time at the start and end frame of everyone's runs. We could potentially use this tool to count the frames in a run too, as it has a frame count at the bottom left (as seen if the above gifs).

Rounding: I noticed that before I started verifying runs, Jesse_Porter seemed to round to the nearest second. .5 would be rounded up, and anything lower rounded down. I admit I've been a bit lax with this and usually always round down. Should we always round down, or should we round .5 up? I think this is important if we swap to tenths of a second or not.

What do you all think? Is this overkill?

Texas, USA

it is true that i was rounding the times up or down depending on the milliseconds being above or below .5 when frame by framing. this is a very hard subject because we have to measure convenience with accuracy. i have been using avidemux for frame by framing. it is possible to get our times posted with milliseconds but it will require a lot more work. i think it would be better to only give times that are tied millisecond times that way we can have a clear 1st and 2nd place runs. i do not feel that it is necessary to time all runs by the milliseconds, only runs that are tied should be timed by the millisecond to make things less stressful. i do not know what to do about the rounding situation, that subject is very complex for me to come up with any ideas atm. as far as a starting frame: this is also hard to decide upon because it needs to be easy not only for the moderators to time but also easy for the runners to time. for instance: a runner should be able to start their timers at the same time that they push a button on the controller, but at the same time, we the moderators need a clear representation to go off of when we are frame by framing the run. the problem that i see right now is that the runners are not able to stop their timers until after they lay the final blow to death bringer. i did not know until you discovered that there was a 3 frame difference in the start frame from when the button is pressed so this could also be a potential problem if we want it to be. if we do change the start and end timing, we will have to go back and change everyones times and that will take a LOT of work. but i am open to any ideas that are laid out on the table.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
European Union

I agree that it should be easy for runners to consistently time themselves, and I hadn't put much thought into it whilst posting. I have stubbornly kept to my own timing method for this precise reason. I can more accurately hit the last split when Death Bringer's axe impales him at the end of his death animation, rather than trying to split as I land the last blow. But I'm not going to argue the case for swapping to that as our current rules are quite established (and it would make a sub 8 min run harder !). I don't think the 3 frames it took for the screen to change in my example is really significant, but I have noticed that some runners don't start their timer as they hit the select button to start the run, and can start shortly afterwards.

I take your point that this isn't really necessary until two runners are tied again. Although I think it would be a shame if someone got a sub 8 min run with 7:59.6 and I had to round it up.

In terms of how hard it is to time a submitted run, I find it easier to frame count with Yua now, where previously I had run my own timer whilst watching the run and hitting the start and end split manually. I just take the start frame and the end frame and plug it into a html app I made http://house-keeper-spots-88787.bitballoon.com/ (30fps for youtube videos, 60fps for my own recordings).

For now I guess we don't need to do anything, I certainly don't think it's worth re-timing all the runs on every leader board.

Texas, USA

your html app i find interesting because i have been having to use my engineering calculator to get the times correctly instead. which of course is more work and a pain. i will say this, if you want to put in all the work to change the timing for start and end frames then by all means do it. but i simply do not have the time myself to do so.

Edited by the author 6 years ago
European Union

Thanks for the input, I think I'll take your advice and wait until we have a decent reason to time more accurately. The app is nothing really. I write code for a living so whenever I have a repetitive task it usually ends up getting automated :P

United States

I like the idea of having more precise timing, but I also agree with Jesse in that if we need to break a tie, then it is absolutely necessary to count frames. Also in the case where a PB may be too close to call. Otherwise, it should be up to the person submitting the run to give as specific of a time as they like!

European Union

Gave in and had to scratch the itch. I added the ability for runners to submit a time with milliseconds to the leader board. I added milliseconds to the WR run for Tyris. I am willing to re-time anyone's run to add milliseconds on request. I'll leave it up to runners choice when they submit a run whether they provide milliseconds or not, and just time to the accuracy they provide. Unless it's a tie or something. This is reversible though so if it's an unpopular decision I can change it back.

NoControl likes this
Texas, USA

just wanted to let everyone know that i now have time to re-time runs. if everyone is in agreeance with how they will be timed. i am not sure what everyone agreed upon, but i am willing to put in the work. however; i can only re-time youtube runs. i cannot re-time twitch runs because i cannot download twitch videos.

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