I think there should be a category for that because why not. Plus, there's a few known times for this category. I currently have 2nd place for this specific one.

I don't think it's worth having an extra category for this, considering there isn't really any substantial difference between the two categories. I don't consider the mirroring of the tracks to be much of a difference within the context of a speedrun.

Yeah, there's no point in making a category where the only differences is that the tracks are mirrored. No core game mechanics are really changing.

I think there should be a separate category for Mirror mode. What's the downside to having it?

I don't think the question is "What's the downside to having it?", but rather "What's the point in having it?", as mentioned in the two posts above yours.

The point to having it is that it's just as legitimate a category as regular 150cc and if a leaderboard existed for it, I'd submit my time.

Legitimacy isn't the issue here. The issue is that the differences between Mirror and 150cc aren't substantial enough to justify having an additional leaderboard.

I haven't started running mirror mode because there is no category on here! I would love there to be a mirror mode leaderboards, it is a new and different challenge compared to 150cc

To get a good time on mirror mode, I think you have to commit and focus to speedrunning it and that makes it worthy of its own category in my opinion!!

After running all cup tour in 150cc, i tried a run in mirror mode, and it is alot harder because most people have muscle memory for the normal courses, and everything being opposite makes more difficult.

I'm here to restate my opinion that Mirror Mode be considered a valid category for all of the reasons listed by the 5 people supportive of the idea in this thread.

I'd just add it myself but the other mods would remove it.

I discussed this with EskimoJoe, Gavme, and MisterIXI, and explained why the leaderboards are set up this way. We all agreed on that all the other CCs + mirror should not be added to the leaderboards. Same goes for any% and 100%.

As for the cups being misc categories: They are not full game runs, and thus they should stay misc.

Also, it might just be me, but I can only count 4 people being supportive of mirror mode.

Another reason would be that whenever we add mirror mode, we also have to add 50cc and 100cc. There's no point in adding those.

I did miscount the number of supportive people in this thread. But I disagree on all counts.

I do not really care that the individual cups need to be misc categories just because they are not full-game runs. Maybe that's what the intent of "misc categories" was in the first place, but for game with only one valid full-game completion method, it's not really necessary to have them as misc. There is enough room to show all of them on the main page; thus, they should all be on the main page.

And while we're on the topic of the intent of certain site functions, from what I understand, one of the tenets of the site is to be as inclusive as possible. Right now this is not even remotely happening. To quote KirkQ from a discussion about 50Hz vs. 60Hz,

[quote]I tend to think that arbitrary restriction of how people run for the sole purpose of narrowing category differences is not necessarily a good thing.[/quote]

this is exactly what is happening here. Certain people in power positions have decided that there is ONE correct way to play the game, and if you want to play it differently, you can fuck off. It is seriously ridiculous that we are still arguing about whether or not we should allow people to play, and track their times, for more than one style of play of a game on a website dedicated to speedrunning that game.

As for 50cc and 100cc, to my knowledge nobody has done runs of them, and nobody asked for them to be included on the site. If a few people did, then I would support including them. I don't personally find 50cc and 100c very engaging categories, but it's not my place to tell other people how they can and cannot play the game.

As mentioned previously, room on the main page isn't a reason for individual cups being misc categories or not.

While you may have a point about being as inclusive as possible in terms of tracking categories, the site's infrastructure needs to enable a clear distinction between what is "featured" and what is "tracked" for this inclusiveness to be viable while still maintaining the leaderboard's other roles (see my post in kirkq's thread). As discussed in said thread, the current state of the site does not allow for this to be done properly. To quote kirkq: [quote=kirkq] Anyway I guess this discussion isn't really going anywhere else. I'll probably push the team to integrate some "tracked vs featured" changes at some point to add more options, but it may not be in the near future. Misc categories aren't an ideal solution I agree, and I have some ideas to move those around a bit too eventually. [/quote]

Once these changes are implemented to allow a significant distinction between "tracked" and "featured", then we can consider this discussion again. In the mean time, I think my last post in the other thread addresses the remainder of yours.

The existence of extra room on the main page is more than a valid reason to put individual cups there. I guess this is just a fundamental difference of opinion.

We have been down the "featured" vs. "tracked" road many times before. Due to the fact that multiple people have voiced for support for it, my opinion is that Mirror Mode is a valid enough category that it falls closer to being something that should be "featured" instead of "tracked."

I believe this is the relevant section of your previous post:

[quote]While allowing for more play styles is definitely something to encourage in general, the distinction between said play styles should be justified. Whereas many other games have significantly distinct play styles, such as the classic Any% vs. 100%, or, more concretely, No Skips vs. Skips in MK64 or MKW, MKDD only has one overarching play style (for speedrunning). Within a given play style, it's important to establish rules for competition to function properly, and in this case they're given by RTA, 60Hz, 150cc restrictions.[/quote]

While I don't claim to know much of anything about MK64, it looks like the "rules for competition to function properly" didn't include requiring people to play on a single version, whichever it may be. Why is it deemed acceptable to track people's times over two platforms and emulator? By your logic, it would make a lot more sense to pick one of the platforms and require everyone to play on that one to avoid fragmenting the community. Why is it okay to have all three platforms be "featured"?

Furthermore, this is all assuming that allowing Mirror Mode times actually would fragment the community. I don't think that the inclusion of MM times on the leaderboards would induce even a single person to pick up MM exclusively and ignore 150cc because MM is generally something people do when they want a further challenge beyond 150cc.